Why not horns?
unsound6,882 posts05-22-2010 11:01amI absolutely loathe horns! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So lets have this shootout Seas Millennium tweeter, worlds finest mid tweeter. vs a high quality early 1960's american made horn. Horn will annihilate any /all dome tweeters. db sens is what makes horns~~~ far~~~ superior to any tweeter from Seas and Scanspeak. |
tpreaves2,633 posts05-22-2010 9:55am it seems like a no-brainer that everyone would want this performance.I find most horns too "in the face" for my likin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was very interested in the new 18 Sound horns, and such, weighing in at 8-15 lbs each. Richard screamed at me,,**Those are for concerts, they'll rip your ears off*** He also suggested I avoid JBL's as they are too aggresive, Especailly as he knows i like very near field listening, low volume. , small room. I have a gut feeling the Jensen purchase was a good deal. These Jensen Mid horns are rare/hard to find. Paid $250/pair |
bjpd57a196 posts05-22-2010 1:10pm Properly set-up, the Horn speaker, is capable of uncanny realism. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I am a Horn Believer And this conviction in what you claim is true, based ONLY from a tweeter horn witha 2.2 Mundorf cap (set up right?? who knows)) the Magnovox Alnico which came out of the old console cabinets,, This is the highs I've laways wanted in my system. My guess is the early 60's american made horns will annihilate any dome tweeter from Seas and Scanspeaker, this due to horns higher sens at say,,97ishdb. Whereas tweeters comming from Seas and scanspeak are below 91db, = Dinasaurs. Realism vs A faint echo. Dome tweets leave so much music behind, Horns will give every tiny nuance = realism. |
I've owned a lot of speakers over the years but I have never experienced anything like the midrange reproduction from my horns. With a frequency response of 300 Hz. up to 14 Khz. from a single distortionless driver, it seems like a no-brainer that everyone would want this performance. Why don't you use horns?macrojack05-22-2010 9:08am
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Just experiened my 1st EVER horn in my system, Richard Gray, noted how i was suffering after spending $$$$$$$$ Upgrading My SEAS Thor MTM speakers, especially with buying brand new Millennium MIDRANGE/Tweeters. So he dug around in his stash room, and found a pair of early 1960's, Magnovox tweeter horns, with a small alnico magnet. WOWWWW UNREAL. So i figured we will need to finda midrange horn, same era, early 1960's,. The choice was EV Wolverine and the Jensen midrange horn, same build as the Mgnovox, alnico, came out of the Jensen Tro ETTE 2 way 1960's speaker. The Jensen arrives today. I am excited. I have the Mag tweet running with a 2.2 Mundorf Supreme Silver Oil, and this runs from ohh say 9k up, I will disconnect the new DavidLouis 4 incher **Full** range**( actually its a high bass through upper midrange, highs roll off), and so my speaker will be Dual W18E001 + Jensen Midhorn + Magnovox Tweeterhorn. 87db + ohh say 97ish db. I am very confident the Jensen Mid horns will easily shootout the 91db DavidLouis FR. Only have a 8.2 Mundorf EVO SGO cap, here, Richard will look around his shop for a 4uf and on Monday I can add the 4uf and bring the mid horn down to ohhh say, 1600, which is where my W18's come up to, 1600, have 2 Mundorf caps on the bass. The Mundorf SESGO cap is the finest bass producing cap, Rock sold bass notes. Will post a note after installing Horns Rule |
macrojack OP1,300 posts05-23-2010 9:55am and permits us to get back to the topic of "WHY NOT HORNS?". ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My answer is Because no one TOLD me about horns. I was like so many here, not thinking ~~Outside The Box~~ = box being box xover/low sens traditional dinsaur speaker designs. Had Richard Gray NOT suggested I try a horn, to this day I would be left in the dark about horns superior musical voicing. My horn project will take me up to the place I can afford the Voxativ AC1A's at $1900, maybe late this year. It will be a midrange shootout Midrange horn vs Voxativ AC1A. My hunch is the horn will be sold off. I may end up keeping the Magnovox tweeter horn with the Vox AC1A for highs. Again Horns Rule. But which horns? The new masive rock concert horns are not for me. I am looking for nuances, subtility., Not horns that will **rip your head off* as Richard Gray likes to say. Richard mentioned the JBL's are too aggressive for his ears. Post man just droped off the Jensen 1960;'s Midrange horn... later............................. |
hummm these Jesnen 1960's horns came witha tiny thin brass voice horn,, the driver iteslf is at least 2 lbs and has a nice huge alnico magnet,, sounded a bit harsh, not too clean,,have to get with Ricahrd Gray see if he can make some adjustments. Let me read through this thread,,see whats up in the world of horns past 10 years. |
eldartford4,262 posts05-24-2010 8:11amHerman... Sounding like trumpets is a quite precise description of what I find undesirable about horns. I think everyone will understand what I am saying, although they might disagree. As is often said on Audiogon, we couldn't care less about specs...it's how it sounds. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ While reaseraching the heck for info on the pair of Jesen alnico 1960's Tri ETTE speaker horns I came across this upload of a readable link to a 1960's magazine ad for I think Electro Voice or Jessen, The tech went onto say about his speakers,, ** the buyer is not the least interested in specs, graphs, only in how it acutally voices music, this is what we should be concern about making a speaker** Paraphrasing. Listening to a rough quick set up on the Jensen mid?? ot tweet? horn. The motor is nice has a rather large alnico magnet. Simuliar to the Magnoxov horn I have, which sounded STUNNING and realistic So based on this I went ahead and bought the Jensen, hoping it would fill in to 1600hz up to the 9k Magnovox horn. But I think its a tweeter horn and from my superifical testing, not as clean, real as the Magnovox = perhaps a bad buy. Not sure til Richard figures out what we can do, right cap value and maybe find a new horn, as the horn that came with the motor is a cheap, thin rounded brass , like a tiny trumpet. I think horns are best for high fq's,. once you get into mids, it starts to sound like you say *Trumpety* My guess is the Voxativ AC1A will reproduce the midrange I'm looking for over the horns ability to match this performance. I'm going to hold off buying up more horns , as I need to put that cash away for the AC1A's. Now will I need the Magnoxov tweeter horn to help out the AC1A in the highs?? Can not say for sure, as we know *Full* Range really does nopt mean *complete range* I'm not concern about bass, as the W18E001's dual/each cabinet handle that range. So even if the AC1A are a tad weak in the bass, its no real issue. If the AC1A does what folks are saying it does, I think the new Vox technology has *trumped* the older technology of midrange horns. I'm guessing my *Frankenstein* ( as Adam over at madisound has taged it) will be a mix of ] Low sens bass W18E001, 2000 release High sens Vox for mids 2020 design High sens Magnovox tweeter horn from the 1960's. Its hard to beat any of these 3 drivers in what they do. Its like I am taking the best from all 3 speaker designs, blending all in one *The Frankenstein* |
Also if your looking for a pair of horns that sound like a PA I've got a pair of cs99a's in the box I could never get quite right!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Most, at least I;'m guessing here, many of the new horns have huge magnets, and my teck geek, warned me to avoid these new horn PA designs. ~~~Just cranked up a test cd, Schnittke Concerto Grosso 1/BIS. The addition of Magnovox (thanks to Richard Gray's loaning). this 1963 horn tweeter with a small alnico magnet, really picks up details which any driver under say, 92db will voice only as a background echo. IMHO, a horn tweeter will voice details and nuances in a superior sensitivity making dome tweeters obsolete. The only dome tweeter I know which will compete with a nice horn tweeter is the Seas Exotic T35, rated 94db sens. |
