Why not horns?

OM Horns

These are horns that I think I could live with some day if they sound as good as they look.

The cost is the one thing I suspect I could not live with and would be the reason "why not horns" for me in this particular case.

Also there is a lot of competition at the $53000 price point.

Also it seems that very expensive speakers in general seem to depreciate the most on the used market as well which makes them a bad investment. People with the money to afford $53000 speakers are not searching for used bargains I suspect which means the prices have to come way down into the range of mere mortals to re-sell without taking a big financial hit.

I meant to say prices have to come way down to re-sell which means the owner will take a big financial hit if they re-sell new big bucks speakers.

Macro,

Can you provide a single post with the recipe for your speakers including the end cost?

PErhaps the info has been provided but I either missed it or it is in too many bits and pieces to soak in cleanly.

macro,

I see it.

Its not clear to me what the dbx does and whether a separate crossover of some sort is needed?

Thanks.

MJ,

So what is handled in your configuration by the JBLs versus the custom horn loaded drivers?

Are teh JBLs biampable or is the complete full range speaker in play but fed only a certain frequency range by the dbx acting as a crossover?

Check these out:

GP Unicorns.

Uses a single full range horn loaded Walsh DDD drivers.

The cabinet is a rear loaded horn I believe. It is used to extend the low end output of the DDD driver I believe.

A Walsh driver, including the ddd, transmits sound through wave bending for higher frequencies and operates pistonically for low frequencies, which is where the horn is applied much like it would be in any rear horn loaded design I believe.

My understanding is the Unicorn is GPs attempt to make a full range speaker using only their DDD Walsh driver. They accomplish it via horn loading the driver to provide the low end that would otherwise not be there in lieu of a separate driver.

I've never seen a Walsh driver that could be considered efficient and there is no horn loading of most of its frequency range possible (due to its omni nature) to help make it so . I suspect that accounts for low efficiency of these compared to many horns.

Those are very nice looking horns and seemingly not overly large either. Not cheap but not as expensive as some I have seen.

I wonder how they sound?

Too much for my budget currently though.

BTW I am dabbling with setting up a third mostly A/V system in my house. I have an old NAD 7020 receiver that I keep as a spare available to use and may consider the Klipsch horn route that I have been dabbling with here in that I have some room for decent but not overly large floorstanders that will be placed not too far from the rear wall in this case. I may start out by using my existing souped up OHM Ls here to start, but floorstanders would really fit in visually here better.

WOw, shouty all caps in a horn thread. That's sure to not be very popular here! Horn lovers can be quite sensitive!

I am not sensitive at all about negativity, except if delivered in a malicious manner. Its a fact of life that there is probably nothing that is immune from being disliked, even Scotty McCreary.

Its a slippery slope to do anything that discourages open discourse......

Back on the positive note regarding horns, I just picked up a pair of TAD 125 Hibachi 2 monoblocks that I am acclimating to in my 2 channel a/v system currently.

I suspect these are probably the first amps I have owned that would seem to be overtly horn friendly, so this opens up some future possibilities, though WAF is still a big barrier for me to trying horns in a serious manner.

Thanks MJ, I will consider that advice.

Unfortunately for horns, I am drowning in good sound everywhere at the moment already and not enough time to listen to what I already have, so I am not feeling the need to make another major investment quite yet.

I also have two kids still to send to college.

Someday when the urge reaches critical mass in relation to the big picture, I may take the plunge in that I suspect it is true that very good horns may be one of the only designs that might substitute for what I have, hence the interest. But only if I am able to do it right and in harmony with the rest of my life.

Meanwhile, I hope to attend Capital Audiofest again this year in suburban DC. Horn speaker systems had a more than healthy presence there last year and delivered some of the best sound in show. Maybe I'll hear something that will up the ante like the custom GOTO horns did last year, but I suspect if I do that the cost (not to mention size) will be astronomical as well in conjunction and the benefits over what I already have marginal at best as well. We'll see....

I heard these at 2010 Capital Audiofest and the setup with them was one of the better ones there. I lot of people stayed and listened a long time not wanting to leave, including me. Not a bad deal.

Cathedral Horns

"Because the USA press killed them for the US market over 30 years ago and most audiophiles are naive enough to believe what they read."

The large systems needed for full range high efficiency horns and space increasingly being at a premium for many probably had a lot to do with it. Not to mention all the other inconveniences and potential additional expenses for many dealing with large and heavy household items.

If they were not "high end" then they would be pretty much extinct by now, at least for home use.

Obviously that is not the case and they still thrive in pro applications where efficiency is in high demand.

Harry who???? :^)

I'm glad I did not know who he was until now.

Nothing against him personally, but one one human can represent truth and reality for all.

Plus I never found the Absolute Sound to be that interesting or useful. I never connected with it whenever I picked one up and gave a read.

Given his influence, still sounds like horn designs were largely ignored by HP back in his day, and that may be one (not the only reason) that horn speakers do not get as much attention today (or over the years since their heyday) as they might deserve.

On the other hand, over the years, I have heard a lot more poor or mediocre sounding horn based systems than really good ones. Only in more recent years again it seems have a large variety of vendors seemed to endeavor hard to get the design right and also make them affordable and in a package whose size has appeal for more as well.

So the comment earlier that HP did a disservice to horns somehow seems to ring true to me, even if the error was merely one of omission, in that he was in search of TAS apparently so cost, size etc. should not have been a limit.

Did he ever review any Walsh style speakers set up well?

If not then I'll pin that disservice on the poor guy as well. :^)

Strong stuff in that link but hard to shoot down totally.

The audio magazines really don't go about their things any different than any other publication with a focus on selling stuff. Science and technology is boring. Fantasy and soap boxes are much more fertile grounds for keeping people interested.

For an industry firmly reliant almost exclusively on technology, high end audio no doubt resides elsewhere. It is to real science kinda what WWE is to real sports.

Honestly, I have read all the rags over the years on occasion and continue to but I take it all with many grains of salt. I did not know who HP was or his influence until this thread.

Someone must be to blame for all the nonsense that goes on for big $$$s in HEA. In all fairness, TAS should probably be held as accountable as any.

"Mapman, I remember there was an Ohm model that got good reviews back in the early 80's in Stereophile and maybe TAS too."

I've seen Stereophile reviews of the first and second generation Walsh 5s. Stereophile review of gen 1 directly influenced gen 2 as I recall.

That's about it though. If TAS ever addressed any Walsh designs, I am not aware.

OHM is a more "blue collar" type brand that has never specifically targeted the "High End" buying community, TTBOMK but rather just let teh pecking order of things fall out naturally over time as determined by the consumers, not those in teh media who might assume ownership of what is or is not "high end".

I think the m4.0t was the one mirroring a CJ amp maybe?

I ran a 4.0t for a long time up until a few years back. It was definitely a unique sounding beast. I would say that it did tend to match up best with speakers that were more tube amp friendly by nature, my Maggies at the time and my Triangle Titus's. Went loud but fell flat with more difficult loads, like B&W and Dynaudio and also OHM but to a lesser extent.