Why no “Break in” period?

Prof,
It is good to see you're softening up a bit in regard to sound quality & break in. From 12/8 you posted this:

12-08-2019 10:51am

Nelson Pass, John Curl, and Ralph Karsten all believe in equipment break-in, burn-in, or what ever you want to call it. The late Charles Hansen did as well.

"The point wouldn't be that some electronics designers think AUDIBLE break in occurs (note the capitalized word), but what evidence they have for the claim.

Do they have objective measurements showing the change

and

Do they have tests correlating the objective changes with their audible consequences, that control for well known listener biases?


If not, it's just more of the same audiophile anecdotes, unfortunately."


And in your post above you state:

"Not claiming break in doesn’t exist. Not claiming "you can’t be hearing X" or that it isn’t audible if it does exist. Not claiming to know the answer. Willing to accept it happens."



That is progress.  

Fedie,
Same experience here with a new benz cartridge I'm breaking in. Dynamics improve, soundstage expands, imaging improves. I'm on about hour 50 now. 

prof,
" Do you get this nuance...yet? Do you think you’d be able to actually depict my argument without strawmanning?"

Me,
Again, try to be honest with yourself. You believe that measurements trump personal experience & there is nothing that can be said to persuade you of this until science catches up to our hobby. As a consequence of this opinion, what you believe to be "nuance" doesn't exist.

I'm really not "strawmanning" you... it's just that on this footing (measurements trump personal experience & there is nothing that can be said to persuade you of this until science catches up to our hobby), your argument simply can not be argued.   

+1 nonoise 

Prof,
"You MAY be hearing what you claim, but the method you are using to come to your conclusion or argue for it isn't as reliable as you seem to assume."

Me,
Again, how is this any different than what I previously posted:
"Just trying to teach us that we can't possibly be hearing what we are hearing"  

Prof,
C'mon, we can do nuance around here can't we"

Me,
Let's see if we can find nuance in your last post to mill:

"That a high end audio designer gave up providing objective or reliable methods for vetting his designs hardly supports your case. The Curl quote is just appealing to the same subjectivity as you are; it's assertion, not justification"

"Did you stop for a second to consider why the instruments were developed in the first place? Yeah...to measure things not only that our sense can detect, but that our senses can NOT detect - to go BEYOND the capabilities of our senses.   You do know that distortion profiles and various objective electrical phenomena can be measured that you with your Super Duper Golden Ears can't possibly hear, right?"

And finally...

"I've actually had more coherent conversations with flat-earthers, who at least try to offer objective evidence for their claims vs constant repetition of personal assertions" 

It's easier to "Find Waldo" than "Nuance" in your posts prof

Prof,
" And I pointed out I hadn't come to a firm conclusion on the matter myself"

Me,
You are not being completely honest with yourself here prof. You're a measurements guy who will not be swayed by any "conversation" I can possibly have with you on this subject. Maybe someone else can, but it will not be me. 

Sailboat,
I'm hopeful that someday science will catch up to our hobby & be able to accurately measure all the improvements we hear.    

geoff, geoff, geoff,... They are the victims here. Just trying to teach us that we can't possibly be hearing what we are hearing. 

BTW mijostyn, are you a doctor of capacitors or does your knowledge just automatically apply to capacitors? The reason I'm asking is capacitor companies (these are people who made there life profession, capacitors), state there is a break in period.  

"Politely attacking somebody is still attacking. It seems like millercarbon has received a lot of that, not that I am agreeing or disagreeing with him. Hiding under the umbrella of "politeness" is not going to cut it with me."

+1 Andy

BTW, I'm perfectly okay with the "subjective" improvements I hear during break in periods. Also, what mill stated about listening to the first side of a record album is spot on. If you can't hear the difference, it's your system or ears.