Why Isnt Techincs 1200 Considered Audiophile?

Do you mean the original SL1200 mk1 ?
It’s pretty old, but if you will watch this video you will see than John Grado still use one of these at grado labs to check the cartridges. In fact it was a hi-fi turntable that pioneers of the deejayin start using in the 70s in NYC on block party jams.

Later another hi-fi Technics became the industry standard, it was SL1200mk2 with +/- 8% pitch control and new Technics tonearm. It was not made for the DJs, but served professional DJs till today. In fact they made a million copies and it was a champ of turntables on the global mass market until it was discontinued not so long ago. This turntable can be upgraded by any user who would like to transfer it to a high-end by replacing a stock tonearm and armboard, footers, wires, or even power supply. Actually it’s better to buy SP-20 (made in 1976), this is what i compiled for a friend.

Technics true High-End turntables were made since the 70s for broadcast industry, models like SP-10mkII (which i’m using) and SP-10mkIII (from the 80s) considered a High-End today. Tonearms like EPA-100, 250, 500 or EPA-100mkII or professional version of the EPA-100 are amazing tonearms, they are highly regarded today, especially the rarest EPA-100mkII ($2-3k).

Now we have SL1200GAE, SL1200G and SL1200GR and they are high-end turntables, many people are blown away by the quality, they are completely different from older Technics turntables, but still can be upgraded with better tonearms. I'm not happy that they looks like an old SL1200mkII (i believe many people too), but seems like the quality is top notch. This is a new source for removable armboards which looks like the original, but made for different tonearms.

If you want the reference there you go: https://theaudiophileman.com/sound-vision-2018-technics/
official prices is UK should be about:
8000 pounds for SP-10R
and 14000 pounds for SL1000R

The Audiomods is a tweaked Rega tonearm, there are many option for SL-1200mkII and it depends which cartridge are you gonna use. Also detachable headshell is a nice option. 

I'm still not sure which model of turntable the OP is tying to discuss, but Technics tonearm is not bad at all, the old one cost just $150 new, do you know any other tonearm for $150 that will give you same quality? Fluid damper from KAB is easy to add, and when i tried Technics EPC-205c mk4 cartridge on the stock toneam it was amazing. 

@bdp24  when it comes to Technics i'm fine with my EPA-100mkII Boron Titanium with Rubby Ball bearings with the lowest friction, VTA on the fly etc. I think it's hard to beat by any new tonearm at $5k range (i've never tried more expensive new arms than my Reed 3p "12). Anyway a shoort version of Reed tonearm could fit in the SL1200GAE, but the EPA-100mkII can't fit. 

I think the best vintage tonearm for inexpensive old SL1200/1210mkII is Victor UA-7045 which is normally under $750 in perfect condition or even lower.    

@bdp24 

I know this tonearm, i remember when Zu Audio released their ZU SL1200 mod with Rega RB-1000 tonearm back in 2011: https://www.zuaudio.com/low-voltage/2011/03/zu-sl-1200-turntable.html 

Later the RB-1000 was replaced with a better Audiomods tonearm, but the armwant is still from Rega. Maybe it's not correct word "tweaked rega", but i new toneam with drilled Rega armwand. Anyway Audiomods was fine for Zu DL-103 low compliance cartridge. This is the oppisite to the Technics stock tonearm designed for mid compliance MM and many other tonearms than can be installed on SL1200mkII for higher compliance cartridges. As i said it depends what cantridge the owner is gonna use with the arm. Do you find this Audiomods toneam attractive ? I'm not, sorry. 

@vinny55 even with Studio 54 budged, the belt drive Thorens turntables were in the dj booth in NYC in the 70s disco era, some of the first djs used belt drive Technics SL-23 first, before they became "real djs" and soon realized what they need to develope their skills, SL-1200 mk1 was expensive back in the days, the mk2 became industry standard in the 80s.

Direct Drive SP-10 was made in Japan in 1969 and broadcast turntable for radio DJs was SP-10mkII, but club djing was born later on in the 70’s disco era and not with a Technics. 

You can find SL1200/1210mk2, mk3D, mk4 (with 78rpm), mk5 ... and SL1200 gold ltd ... They are all have the same sound with minor changes in functionality of the pitch contol, a little bit better wires etc, but it’s all based on mk2. Price for them in Japan today is about $150-350 (used) depends on condition, except the collectible gold ltd models and rare mk4 (which plays 78rpm as well). For this price you can’t buy a better DD turntable. In the rest of the world the price is about $400-500 (used) and still nice for those who needs a complete turntable. They made 3 000 000 units of the SL1200mkII. I wouldn’t buy them for $500, for about $1200 everyone can buy much better sp10mk2 or sp20 for about $700.

But the SL1200GR, G, GAE (coreless motor) is completely different beast, the lowest price for a brand new GR is about $1700? But the G is better for double price. You can read Steve Guttenberg’s review: https://www.cnet.com/news/the-new-technics-sl-1200gr-turntable-for-djs-or-audiophiles-or-both/

A true bargain (under $1200) is Technics EPA-100 and many more vintage Japanese tonearms made by SONY, JVC Victor, Denon, Micro Seiki, Audio Craft, SME etc, but people love to talk about some new ugly arms made in garage by some enthusiasts, seriously, the Audiomods is one of the ugliest tonearms ever made, do you think it’s better sonically than EPA-100 for example or better engineered than producsts from Victor Laboratory? Rega is another example of the ugly tonearms on the market. And why do you think the Audiomods is better than new Technics tonearms that comes with GAE?

@has2be

Audiomods was designed for MC cartridges, you can not change effective mass of this tonearm without detachable headshell, so there are some limitations. For MC users it’s fine, but there is another new tonearm on the market available in "12 or "9 inch with two different counterweight and detachable headshell for very reasonable price with top quality bearings. This is Thomas Schick tonearm made in Germany, few year ago the price was about 1200 euro for "12 inch! The most ellegant tonearm on the market, you can ignore how the product "looks like" if it’s not important for you, for me it’s important as much as the quality. This is my Schick "12 on SP-10mkII. It was nice tonearm for low compliance cartridges like SPU and Denon (it was designed for them), but for all my MM cartridges and for some LOMC like ZYX i prefered Technics EPA-100 on the same turntable.

If you will check the specs of Technics EPA-100 you will find out why Matsushita tonearms are better. Don’t forget its unique counterweight designed to use cartridge of different compliance, except heavy ones. But even for heavy once there is a ring weight as an option.

Now i have EPA-100mkII tonearm with armwand made of Boron Titanium. It’s a different price category. Try to find anything like that from the DIYers like Audiomods. That’s why the research and access to a better materials was important for Japanese gians like Matsushita. It’s impossible to imagine that someone at his garage like Thomas Schick or Jeff Audiomods will get the access to Boron Titanium or something like that for a small quantity of tonearms they are making. I don’t think those DIYers can compete with Micro Seiki, Technics, Sony, Audio Craft or any other big manufacturers from the 70s/80s. And those arms from the big manufacturers are in the same price (today) or very close to the small manufacturers like Audiomods, Schick etc.

Everyone is free to make a choice.

@vinny55 and all

 An old Technics SL1210/1200 mkII, mk3D, mk4, mk5 or SL1200 LTD Gold are not an audiophile turntables, they are HI-FI turntables, each of them can be improved by the user.

The ONLY Technics audiophile turntables (all in one) are SL1000mkII or SL1000mkIII if we’re talking about classics here.

SP-10mkII, SP-10mkIII drives are audiophile quality
EPA-100, 250, 500, EPA-100mkII are audiophile tonearms
EPC-100c mk4, mk3 or EPC-205c mk4... (or p-mount, or universal versions) are audiophile cartridges
Obsidian plinth made onyl for audiophile tunrtables

As you can see the ultimate Technics products sells separately, so the audiophile can buy what he need (drive, tonearm, cartridge).

The all in one turntables are not audiophile, they are hi-fi for much lower price, no matter which model.

I’m not talking about newly released technics turntables here, i’ve never tried them. 
Brand new Technics reference turntables can be discussed in my thread:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/upcoming-technics-sp-10r-100th-anniversary-model  

It was not designed as a "disco" turntable for deejays, 3 000 000 copies sold since it was made. It's bulletproof quality with only one main disadvanage when it's used by deejays and this fact is a proof that it was not primary designed for dj use. The disadvantage is a bass feedback if the big soundsystem is near (in the clubs) because of the poor desing of the original footers. Because it was designed for a home use as a Hi-Fi component for relatively cheap / affrordable price. 

Zu Audio - the manurfacturer of amazing full range speakers, also  tweaked Denon cartridges for years, now they are tweaking new Denon DJ turntable: https://www.zuaudio.com/turntable 

 

Now in 2018 both statements is right, no matter what you think about SL1200mkII or SL1210mkII or mk3D, mk4, mk5 or ltd.

1) Technics is a DJ turntable, becase for over 30 years it is a worldwide dj standard. This particular model will be in any technical rider and a must have for any night club or radiostation where professional djs are playing records.

2) Technics is not a DJ turntable, because it was invented as a Hi-Fi component for everyone.

The brand new SL1200GR, G or GAE is still an ultimate DJ turntable, but at the same time it is a true High-End turntable.

For DJ world it is extremely expensive, for audiophile world it is relatively cheap.

Audiophiles are more happy about this new product from Technics than DJs, but for the price of the old one any DJ will be happy to buy it and use it too. 

End of discussion