Why is science just a starting point and not an end point?

Are you a politician? You manage to avoid answering the question.

100 trained people...

Education matters!!!

How do you think Andrew Jones or John Devore tune their speakers at the final stages? With a calculator??? Or Nelson Pass with his amps???

So, you are unable to differentiate between the two.

Again, is that because of the amps, or because of you?

Until I hear something, I don't know what it sounds like. No one knows what anything sounds like until they have heard it. 

I still maintain there are things going on with audio signals that we can not measure. This is not the same as grabbing a 12v battery, grabbing some "whatever" wire to run the DC through where the only thing you care about is the resistance of the wire so you can figure out how bright the light that is 200' away will be. There is a lot more going on in a system than simply lighting a bulb, and yet soooooo many here keep harping on these very basic functions of electricity to be the complete answer for anything electrical.

Capacitance and inductance have a dynamic effect on frequencies as we all know. The audio signal as it's passing through a wire to the component is not a simple 60hz wave. It's a complicated cacophony of frequencies happing all around and on top of each other. There will be phase shifts - think crossover - isolation of frequencies - again, think crossover. Thats just as the signal is on its way to the component. Then, it gets "processed" by each component over and over again until it arrives at our ears.

Beyond the specifications of any given component (Which have been derived at by measurements, I know...), until I hear it, I don't know if I like it or not. Too many variables in the "unknown" to be able to make that kind of determination.

Broad strokes as to how something "might" sound? Sure. Specifics and if it will be liked? Not a chance in hell.

Which is why I added Nelson Pass. You don't think he listens to his amps for the final tuning?

From  Stereophile in 2017:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/nelson-pass-circuit-topology-and-end-science

Pass: Measurements and listening go hand in hand. There is a correlation between objective and subjective, but they're not strictly causal relationships. Clearly, there are some amplifiers that measure great with "standard" measurements but don't sound so good, and there are examples of good-sounding/bad-measuring as well. The discrepancies are interesting because they point to either things that have not been measured—more likely, misinterpreted—or aspects of perception and taste that don't correlate to measured flaws. Or both.

In the end, the subjective experience is what our customer is looking for. Our taste in sound may not appeal to everyone, but it's what we have to work with, and we only need a small segment of the market to be successful. I don't neglect the measurements; I put them to work.

@djones    



Is that because of the gear being the same, or your inability to differentiate between the two?

Can we get a test of your hearing done so we can know what you are hearing?

And if we could have a scan of the electrical impulses in your brain while you are listening so we can all know exactly what you are experiencing while listening?

Take 100 people, who have hearing that "measures well" (Really good hearing)

Spend a year teaching those 100 people how to listen and what to listen for.

Teach them to understand critical listening. In the same way a sommelier would be educated.

Sit them down and have them do blind listening tests with the differing amps that have the same posted specifications.

And watch how they can differentiate between those amps...,