In response to this, "burn in" and "being out of adjustment" are not the same. If you know better convince Nelson Pass of this below, in case you missed it. Nelson Pass:
"We burn products in for two reasons -
1. We want to see if anything fails.
2. We want to readjust the amplifier against any drift in performance that comes with a burn-in." Nelson Pass on "Burn In"
"It's pretty clear that any such long term behavior is going to be
obscured by the burn-in of the listener. People come to new
audio components carrying the experience of the previous
equipment, and may experience some dissonance with the new
sonic character, even if they like it overall. Over time they often
get used to it and grow to like it.
There are plenty of cases where they initially like it, but the sound
becomes irritating over time. That is called burn-out." Cheers George |
Warm up is fine for correct bias to be reached and dc offsets to stabilize.
From new first power up, a few hours are fine for all caps and components to form.
But 600hrs to reach optimum sonic ability is shear voodoo, and as has been said it's just "expectation bias" or as Nelson Pass calls it " burn-in of the listener"
Cheers George
|
"Burn in" is a very different thing than "break in". Nelson Pass still refers to them as the same in my last post, factory "burn in" or listeners sonic expectation "burn in", take it up with him, if you think your more technically knowledgeable. Cheers George |
OK, so now you are making statements on break in. Show us where you're getting that info from Just Google "forming electrolytic capacitors" and be enlightened just a little. Cheers George |
Does this meet your criteria George?
I trust some things Charlie Hansen say’s, but sorry not this one Charlie. If this is so with this Ayre CDP, then the (break-in) needs to done at the factory, then all adjustments be checked and re-done if necessary at the factory, before it’s sent the store/customer. But in electronics just a few of hours see new electrolytic caps that have sat on the shelf too long and such being "formed" (if you know what that means) to their best, if not they are leaky or too old and need to be replaced. I believe in speakers, a "break-in" can apply "being a mechanical device" with roll-surrounds that need to bed in and soften up. Cheers George |
Nelson Pass
We burn products in for two reasons -
1. We want to see if anything fails.
2. We want to readjust the amplifier against any drift in performance
that comes with a burn-in.
And you can bet your life that’s not done after 600hrs!!! Nelson Pass on "Burn In"
It's pretty clear that any such long term behavior is going to be
obscured by the burn-in of the listener. People come to new
audio components carrying the experience of the previous
equipment, and may experience some dissonance with the new
sonic character, even if they like it overall. Over time they often
get used to it and grow to like it.
There are plenty of cases where they initially like it, but the sound
becomes irritating over time. That is called burn-out.
Cheers George |
dlcockrum
I put the SR Black mains fuse in my REL subs about a week ago and had to cut the output levels back at a good bit. "Previous to the fuses, I could not enjoy low listening levels, the sound was just not rich and dynamic."
You and geoffkait need to get together and write a book on hifi voodoo. Cheers George |
While the Dreadnaught D amplifier will sound wonderful without any burn-in time, users "MAY" experience small sonic improvements during the first week or so of operation.
"MAY" this is a get out of jail card. Otherwise they would have used the word "WILL" It also infers "Expectation Bias" The unit is put on a burn-in torture rack to test for any possible component failures This test is for weak/faulty components under heat stress, not to "burn in" for better sound. Cheers George |
It not only claimed 500 hours for the DAC, but per input as well. Sounds like Ralph’s "expectation bias" to me. By that time not only would a trial period be over but the warranty as well with some. Still not advertised and written on a web page link by the manufacturer. Just like the mains fuses that are "said" to have to be "broken in" and also to be 'directional" by manufacturers, yet try to find any of that advertised on a site by them. Cheers George |
How could you possibly get that from reading my post?
From this, as it infers that it’s in prototype stage. When a product is finalized there are no changes to be made once in production, as it’s all sorted. When a designer is building a new product and makes changes, the component gets broken in before they listen to it. And your talking 600hrs for each change in the prototype. Any further changes made to the unit under development, gets broken in before the changes are evaluated. Cheers George |
When a designer is building a new product and makes changes, the component gets broken in before they listen to it. I’m not talking prototypes, it’s production ones I’m referring to. And the way your inferring is that the production ones are deliberately out of adjustment/calibration to factor in "break-in" period, which after those adjustment/calibrations are magically back in spec?? I think not. To all those that say the manufacture has specified a certain "break-in" period, please link the rest of us to those manufacturers links, instead of it being just personal opinion. Cheers George |
I’ve had ARC gear that claimed a 500 hour break in with nothing fancier than Wima polypropylene caps. ARC claimed this themselves in writing? Or are they saying owners report this. I’d love to see where that’s written if they claim this. If they did, they maybe playing on the "expectation bias" of customers so aptly named by Ralph (Atmasphere). Cheers George |
Let’s play with the "burn in" crews heads.
If you think about it, all the optimum adjustments are made at the factory after the amps been on for a while, maybe an hr if your lucky.
If thing change after 600hrs then those optimum factory adjustments have just gone out the window and need to be redone again.
So it’s either out of adjustment because of aging, and therefore not optimum, or the factory needs to have them on for 600hrs before they are adjusted and sent out to the shops.
Either way if things change they would be out of the original optimum adjustment.
Cheers George |
