I mean the old Mono Ortofons, not the Stereo Pick-Ups - Uups |
Probably the equipment you're hearing it through? They probably sounded very good back then, through a decent amp and speaker. A nice Quad valve/tube control unit and one of their push pull KT66 power anps driving a loverly Quad electrostatic, aaagh and your Ortofon in a SME Mk III and a Garrard or Goldring Lenco TT. `High End' systems arn't a new idea!. |
Thuchan.
I also wonder it my self . I see they all seem went to Japan .
what arm you have it on ? |
Martinhall & Ldvalve,
I am using the old Mono carts with an Ortofon RMA 309 running on an EMT R80. Maybe it is a well matching combination and the carts are also in a pretty nice condition. Nevertheless I was wondering because most people regard that old vintage stuff not as HiFi or even High End which is not true - You are right.
Best & Fun Only - Thuchan |
Dear Thuchan: +++++ " Nevertheless I was wondering because most people regard that old vintage stuff not as HiFi or even High End which is not true - " +++++
that's why exist that long MM/MI thread that confirm your statement with cartridges in the 40+ years old range ( not 60 as your cartridge. )
Now, I own old Ortofon LOMC cartridges and today IMHO are competitive, I own the MC2000, MC30 and MC20MK2 and all them are better that any one could imagine.
Not only Ortofon but other vintage ( by 1980. ) cartridges are really god like Goldbug Ms. Brier or Pioneer PC-70MC or Satin M21P or Victor MCL1000.
So it is no surprise your Ortofon mono sample. As Martinhall point out several vintage cartridges sound good in those old times and with our today systems it still sounds good.
This fact IMHO is a testimony of its great design, build quality and very good execution design.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Raul,
I now have a machine with the EMT JPA66 which is the ultimate phono stage / preamp for MM carts too. You are able to adjust MMs precisely and influence the sound in many ways. I do think this could give me another direction, who knows...
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Thuchan: I never hear/heard that great EMT so I don't have an opinion if like you say is the " ultimate phonostage/preamp ", what I can say is that is the most versatile phono stage equalizer out there.
IMHO as is important and as makes a difference that very old recordings be played through a matched inverse eq. curve as important is that any cartridge ( LOMC or MM/MI ) be matched with its precise electrical needs: this makes " the difference ".
Anyway, good to hear that you are enjoying music better than ever at your place.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
If you are thoroughly enjoying the music, then your imagination will be in overdrive and so, the music will inspire you. It will not matter in the slightest if the recording is mono or stereo, played on a Mitchel Galaxy or a BSR Monarch autochanger, that you can hear ALL of the music will be essence of your enjoyment. In partnership to this, is the enjoyment of owning of the finest Hifi equipment you ever wanted. What really is great, is we all have a multitude of different tastes that keeps us discussing the virtues of different music played on a million different setups and contraptions. This has been going on for over a century and long may it continue!
The main reason you old Ortofon sounds so good? Is because you are enjoying the listening to it. Which, is good. |
I agree with Martinhall. Our brean is very selective depending of our individual education. I have some friends
who are professional musicians and they 'hear' totaly different than I. They are interested in the interpetation
of an composition by the artist and don't care about the 'noise',the 'tiks' or whatever irritating things on a record. They can ,so to speak, destil the music from the
enviroment and enjoy the 'purifyd essence' of the music
without any interest in Hi-Fi. So my quess is that Thuchan is an musician who somehow got involved in Hi-Fi and is consequently asking the wrong questions.
Regards, |
Well said Martinhall, this is really true. Nevertheless "being full of music" does not prevent me from avoiding "not good sound". I am becoming more and more critical and maybe also non compromise.
Yes Nandric, you are right. I was born as a musician but no one discovered and developed my talent. The only chance I had was working with music reproduction machines which led me through different stages of believing and not believing. From my profession I learned to put only wrong questions while all the others believe they put the right questions...
enjoy the sunday evening ...
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Thuchan, Your ironical turn of the questions suggest
also some literary talents but what I meant is that your
post is actualy telling more about yourself than your gear.
However it seems to be more easy to attribute quality to the things themself.
Kind regards, |
Dear Nandric,
being a very funny animal, at least in this hobby, I am not sensitive anymore for a positive feedback on such a high level as you did. You mean I have some skills left as a man now having reached the golden age still listening to old large black discs on a humble system in a modest room? You maybe right.
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Thuchan, What I meant is this. The Ortofon in question
is more than 60 years old so it looks strange to me that
this cart needed to wait so long to be discovered by you. The logicaly right question should be: 'why is this cart sounding so good to ME?' Your intention was to describe a
relation between two 'objects' ( in logical sense) : you and the cart. But you are describing only the cart attributing to the thing all those qualitys. Ie independant
of your own preferences which should be also releveant by
a description of an relation.
Art Dudley just reviewed the Ortofon Collector's Box of the
''remarcable SPu's'' (Stereophile ,april 2011).'Ýour' cart is not among them. Every reader of Sterephile knows (or should) that Art is very fond of the 'oldschool gear'.
But he never told to his readers that this is a kind of his
preference based on ? ( aesthetics?). But he wants you to
believe that Thorens 124 and Garrad 301 are the best TT's
ever made. So you need only to add the 'banana' EMT 997 to
reach the Nirvana. This is called 'sefprojection'. So we get 'rhythm', 'pace' and even the 'silence between the notes' as qualia delivered by the 'idler drive'. As soon as
he can convince Syntax about those qualia I will reconsider
both TT's. In a distant past I owned both and even then thought that I need to become a rocket scientist to be able to build a rocket silo for them. But we are talking about different levels of our hobby and as Raul stated somewhere a music lover will also enjoy a cheap radio.
BTW I write feedbacks only for the items I bought on the
internet.
Ragards, |
Dear Nandric, YES: "Me And THE Cart", a drama in three acts. The real story behind these two very special carts that most of you would never thought of buying or using them (Am I right?) is that they have been kept in perfect shape. There are no rubber parts to be damaged by UV light or bad usuage. They went through knowlegeable hands too.
Regarding very old Ortofon carts I made the experience that even the 100% Japanese owner of Ortofon today is not providing sufficient information, also not about the old arms. Some people think it can`t be a SPU C because it is coming in an A body... which is also only part of the story.
I do like what Art Dudley is doing in Stereophile with those old "small machines". But as I have told in the EMT/Micro thread maybe just the Mini Coopers... His stories are more interesting than what most of the TAS writers are delivering on most modern gear.
BTW the EMT 997 "banana" (the original one) is an excellent tonearm.
I gave up to convince Syntax on these vintage items. Everyone is allowed to live in his own kingdom of ideas, thoughts and knowledge, especially if they lead to nice results - and here we are back to your favourite: philosophy. Maybe I will now develop a completly different relation to my two old Ortofon carts (they are older than we). I will tell you.
best & fun only - Thuchan |
Dear Thuchan, Very nice story indeed. So those literary talents resulted in an drama in thre acts. But I expected
more info about the quality of the cart itself to found
the statement already entailed in your question 'why do Ortofon SPU...sound so good?' So it seems to be a fact that
thy sound good but you hoped that other may provide the
(additional) explanation. I am really sorry that there is
nobody yet to share your excitement with you. The shared excitement shoud be at least twice as great.
BTW is the 'Voice from Mars' as you hoped for or even better?
Kind regards, |
Dear Thuchan, There was an article about 'the new Ortofon'
in Hi-Fi News. If I remember well the Japanese owners deed
no change the 'tradition' of the company. They may still have those 'old-fashioned gatherings' with the old co-workers. If so the personnel department must have a list
of even very old co-workers who may know many details about
their and now your 'babys'. I hope this suggestion make some sense. Regarding the lack of the 'rubber parts' Daniel should be able to explain this because the FR-7 line
is similar in this regard . Or so I thought.
Regards, |
Dear Nandric,
sharing exitement on such vintage items is'nt such easy I guess. I do think that many "of our friends in this special cart field" just read on Audiogon being a little shy to expose themselves with their gear and opinions. I don't mind, it's fine - as long as you stay in this loop :-)
The problem with these old Ortofon carts is also that when they are used with modern tonearms/ tables they do sound a bit sharp and cool. Most people then regard them as being not appropriate for their usage.
... will be continued
best & fun only - Thuchan |
