It's a complex subject, but the point remains that wide band drivers with all the requisite capacities are exceedingly rare, and pretty well all have shortcomings of some sort..
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Agree there are the good wide bands and then there are the poor wide bands.
Voxativ AC1A rates in the very poor category.
Some DavidLouis are nothing great, while a few of DaviidLouis,, IMHO are the best in the world.
2nd to none.
These DL's are relatively new and not well known.
I just made the discovery.
My only interest in wide bands are the davidLouis comming from some china lab.
Germany could take lessons from this chinese speaker tech geek.
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seanheis1460 posts05-06-2018 2:14pmNot many folks realize this, but you can stick a $50 wide band driver on a 48x60 inch piece of plywood (with just a hole cut for the driver) and get mind blowing good sound from a current source amp...and if you use the right driver you can get bass below 50hz that gives a smoother room response than a sealed sub.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There is another forum where the topic is open baffel I dont care for OB's. I get more bass froma wide band is a small cabinet, small port at bottom. The DavidLouis 4 incher/mixed paper in a small cabinet, puts our rock solid bass down to 80hz. Thing ROCKS,,however midrage is a bit stressed, which is why i went with its big brother,, the 6.5. has bass, but different,a big less punch, but deeper/softer. I havea 8 arriving,, I'm hoping to get your 50hz, has a wood cone,,looks very promising,,Gonna run both 6.5 + 8 incher, like stacked Wide Banders. |
seikosha210 posts05-06-2018 1:57pmI thought the exact same thing after I converted to single/wideband driver designs I think the main reason is the ragged frequency response and the marketing issues this introduces. Buyers and manufacturers want to be able to justify their products/purchases with impressive specs. I’m past that, sound first, measurements second.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Absoluetly The only few specs that intere4st me is Most important 1) db sensitivity TRUE REAL sens, not fake. 2) magnet weign, magnet type,. I prefer Neodymium 3) Cone material, (Sorry german labs, your papyrus paper thin cone just won't do, no bass) I prefer mix paper and wood. All other specs/charts, graphs are just numbers,,w hich has nothing whatsoever to do with how a wide band ACTUALLY sounds in real time |
But for me, I've found the strengths of fullrangers/widebanders to outweigh the negatives. YMMV though.
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Honestly,, truthfully, of course its only my opinion..
But frankly, I don't recognize any such weaknesses with my wide banders.
None.
Only ++++'s.
As in
WinWinWin |
seamless. Yet my new Bache Audio Metro 001 speakers, with a single wideband driver covering the range of 400 hz to 10,000 hz, augmented by a woofer and a super tweeter, sounds different from all of these other speakers. The midrange of the Bache 001's is cleaner, more coherent, more natural than I have heard before. Music flows from the speakers in a more relaxed manner, and subjectively dynamic range is greater, with no etch or brightness, and no loss of resolution compared with the Merlins. I have to conclude that Bache's design has an inherent advantage over more traditional designs with a crossover point or points in the midrange frequencies. I wonder why more speaker designers haven't tried this approach?
cellcbern05-06-2018 9:47am
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes sir, This is exactly my very same experience of my wide band, assisted with midwoofers/+ tweeter. Magical and near perfection,,, Oh sorry to step on the old cliche **No speaker is perfect** So sorry,, let me rephrase the Iconic **most Holy* Dogma , nO speaker is perfection.. OK How s this *Near perfect as I ever wanta speaker to sound**. There, not perfectperfect, But as near as I ever hoped. |
But for all another speakers based on wideband with no built in amps, we have to add woofer with crosspoint 500-700 HZ ( Metro-001, Tribeca-001 etc)
Conclusion-- Wideband driver get good ability just to work like midrange with extended freguancy response, and get choice to implement not regular dome tweeter , but supertweeter.
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I think we have the Seas dual W18E001's witha 8.2 rolling off at say 1600hz ish,,87 db, really low vol especailly at low gain on amp.
All the W18's are really doing is adding some punch to bass guitar and drums.
Themn i havea Kasun 3.5 paper cone tweet, has incredible double magnets,, and kicks in witha 2.2 Mundorf cap at say,, 9khz ish, not sure.
91 TRUE REAL db sensitivity. Adds a bit of sheen.
The DavidLouis wide band 6.5 yellow cone,,has a range of like 80hz ish through say, 12k+hz ish.
Has some soft bass and highs NOT rolled off too early,, i real fine lil 6.5er.
My system has never ever sounded so super.
The thing that was missing was the ~~wide bander~~~.
DL 6.5 has a sensitivity at 91db, REAL TRUE BONIFIDE spec, Not a big fat lie.
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WOWWW
I am just now listening through my $10 comp speakers,, and I'm telling you, folks, thats **sparkle, shimmerings of silver** just sweetesttt highs you will ever find in any speaker,
Diana Krall's voice never ever sounded soooo smooth, so real, so accurate, soo authentic, super stage presence.
I'm blown away.
Ck out the smooth bass down to 45hz!!!.
Will the wood cone 8 beat this yellow paper mid 6.5???
Ebay lister speaks lil english and does not like to answer all my Q!;s.
So I can't know til it arrives,, Fridayish, maybe saturday.
have the cypress wood all ready to go for cabinet build.
WOW I;m impressd with the performance of this lik 6.5 NeoDymium magnet wide bander.
His 6.5 white cone Neo, he says, more bass (which I do not need) but not as clean mids (which is my only concern) is superior in this 6.5 yellow papaer mix.
His 4 yellow papaer mix, has bass, some highs,,but as i say, mids in certain fq's can get a tiny bit(more than I will accept) ..stressed. Impressive, but ~~No Cigar~~He only lists the 4 incher on his aliexpress site. He took it off his ebay site.
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cellcbern OP55 posts05-07-2018 7:36pmHere is a paragraph excerpted from Laurence Borden's July 2014 review of the earlier Bache 001 for Dagago. I think it gets to the heart of the augmented widebander advantage:
"In a typical 3-way speaker, the crossover point between the midrange and tweeter is typically between 1 and 2 kHz, which is smack-dab in the region to which our ear is most sensitive. No matter how well designed a crossover might be, the tweeter and midrange drivers invariably differ in their dispersion characteristics, transient response, and distortion characteristics. Making matters worse, the crossover often introduces phase shifts. Although these differences are often not recognized per se (except in especially poor implementations), they become apparent when they are absent, as they are in a speaker based on a wideband driver. As implemented in the Bache Audio speakers, the Tangband covers the range from about 100 Hz to about 10,000, or almost seven octaves. Not surprisingly, they are superbly coherent. As a result, music has a wholeness — or oneness, if you prefer — that makes it seem more lifelike. One has a sense of being more relaxed while listening, a trait I find very desirable in a speaker. Not surprisingly, instruments that span many octaves — like the piano — are especially well served, yet all instruments benefit".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The info in this article correlates exactly how I am hearing the wide bander response in all forms of music,. Simply magical. When I had the Seas Thors over hauled with new tweets/new Mundorf crossovers,,, I was a bit disappointe,, So I ordereda few cheapo wide abndsers and started experiementing,, Thought I liked what i heard,, One day I placed a Thor on one channel, a wide bander on the other. WOW What a revelation,. Immediaetly I yanked out the new $700 Millennium tweets, listed then on Ebay at 60% off, sold in 2 hours, Took that cash and bought a superior wide bander,, The rest is history.. My projects have been all Wide Banders... I am near completion. A wood cone 8 DavidLouis arrives this week. Gonna stack both the 6.5 paper mix DavidLouis with the 8 Wood Cone DavidLouis.. All I can say is Mr Wilson look out.... there's a new kid on the block...and he aint playing... |
jtcf1,192 posts08-23-2021 3:46pmHere's an older DIY article that I found interesting
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Great find to support the validity of wide banders ability to make music come to life, like magical colors. Geek asks **So how do they sound?** **...unconditionally without rival*** may I second opinion as true with no hype. I have a YT upload finsihing any minute,,,, There is some static, as the Jadis DAC takes a full 20 minutes for the chips to warm up,, , I waited 5 minutes to make this shot video,,,btw cked the DL Ebay sire,, says these 6.5's hit 45 free air ,,and I have to say,, its true,, they start to roll off at 45ha,, its soft bass, but most certainly same level as the Seas W18's, which roll off starting at 40hz. Highs are indeed extended,, maybe 13/14k hz ish. has sparkle and sheen. Same sheen as the super Kasun paper 3.5 double magnet tweeter. So forget this idea wide bands have roll off on lows/ highs.. Thats simply not true for these new line of wide banders. Lets see how the video is going...... Ok hot off the press just loaded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0q4OpmnsRs |
OK figured out where the static comming from, Wide Band did like the tweet wires on same connect, Ran tweet back to Thor posts, where they belong Staic gone,, Not sure if I can run dual wide abnds per channel,,, maybe static. seems these drivers want their very own dedicated speaker cables.. Gotta ck with tech geek see how we can/might run dual wide bands on 1 set of speaker cables. Can a 6.5 WB make bass fq's happen? Here ya go Bass guitar riffs and drums sets. Sophie Milman's voice, accurate, smooth , authentic. Lifelike sound stage Vol no more than 8:45,,9oclock can't take. Still we have a room full of music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2qlzPVk0sk |
bass moduale on comp speakers broken,, still getting some bass in the tiny tweets..So I know you guys with better comp speakers are getting the punch I am not hearing.
So if anyone sasys,, **wide bands area compromise**, Just send them over to my uploads,,, That'll set the record straight once and FOR all time. |
Speaker designs with 5 or 10 drivers in one speaker doing the same thing is a dispersion disaster; the live industry (where multiple drivers are required to meet SPL demands)
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I pkan to make some sort of
Wide Band Line Array
Already with the single DL Yellow cone 6 fills the room with pretty good (= high fidelity) sound.
But why stop there?
I have a DLVX8 arriving, see how that sounds, If acceptable , will go in the line array.
Just now ordered the TBW82145.
If that pulls off some magic, that guy will also go in the line array.
I was originally thinking duals,,but with another audiogon member giving 2 thumbs up on the TB2145,,I could not resist, but to order.
The 3 YT vids really made a very convincing display of the power of this driver.
I'm just hoping 3 speaker cables hooked to one speaker line does not produce static..
These WBers are very sensiti9ve.
They seem to prefer a single dedicated speaker cable.
As I found out with a 8 ohm tweet hooked to the same line as the Wder.
Place the wteet along with the W18's.
Static gone.
So the shootout will be twix
DLVX8/95db sens
vs
TBW82145/90db sens
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