Dear Henry, I thought that esthetics is your department.
I myself have no better than that we the 'ordinary mortals'
are not able to comprehend a genius. Think of Michelangelo's David or Pieta. That human hands can produce such works of art is to me incomprehensible.We all are able to admire his work, why should we feel the urge to explain the artist?
Dear Daniel, Your contributions are always welcome. But
are you not too modest as German? To my knowledge the most
Japanese engeneers around II WW were educated in Germany. So no wonder that their 'educated minds' were similar qua engeneering. I would never compare them qua culture.
Regards, |
Dear Halcro, You and Dertonarm are our 'fire -eaters' or
'war -horses'. Never heard about fear? I mentioned somewhere that among the most contra-productive rules the oldest was 'de gustibus... non disputandum est'. However
even Mozart needed to learn first about music before he was
able to give his compositions to the humanity. This apply to any artist we admire. But if you look at our educational systems you will see that even 'phylosophical esthetics' is missing. What can one learn about esthetics with the help of TV? So no wonder that only few really care about while many like to talk about...
You may be privileged by your profession in this matters
the most of us have no better than state that we 'like' or admire something but are not able to describe what we exactly mean. The lack of vocabulary suggest the lack of learning.
BTW I stated ealier that I admire FR-64 S the most of all tonearms. But because of my lack of the right vocabulary I had no better description than 'mechanical beauty'. I was very glad to hear from T_bone that he understod what I wanted to say.
Regards, |
Dear Tobes, I need to 'shoot' at you. I understand the aestetical part of your statement but the Breuer is not a 'simple' tonearm. On the contrary. This tonearm as well
as the sibling Sumiko MDC 800 are the perfect illustration
how looks can be deceitful.
Regards, |
Dear Halcro, I think that the most people are 'context oriented'. Ie 'art and beauty' have some bondaries regarding the question what one will 'recognise' a such.
I myself never thought about tonearms in this 'context'.
But the FR-64S 'awaked' in me this 'emotive feeling' of
admiration. After 30 years of ownership I am still 'wondering'. There is a deep thought in this English saying: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'.
Regards, |
Thuchan&Hifihva, Japan was a 'closed society', to use the
opposite of Poppers 'Open society'. Only the Dutch have had
the admission to enter. 'Rangaku' was long time their name for science while this exppression actually means the study of the Dutch language. This fact imply that aducated
Japanese were able to read and speak (?) Dutch which is of course very similar to German. So the German 'orientation' for at least 'technical study' is easy to understand. I also assume that the German technical faculties were much better than the Dutch at those times. But I don't know when exactly this 'reorientation' took place. However I am somehow sure that Daniel knows the answer.
Thuchan I refuse to 'enter' the 'nature-nurture' riddle.
Regards,
|
Dear Halcro, When Marie Antoinette asked her servants why
the people are revolting she got as answer: they have no
bread to eat. Marie was very suprised and asked: but why
they don't eat cookie's instead?
You seem to have as much understandig of 'people' as Marie.
Ie you are professionaly involved in eastethics, have interest in art your 'whole life' and you expect the 'commons' to admire Cobra tonearm?
There is a grammar reason also. If we think as we speak then there is an obvious dominance of 'S is P' (subject-predicate) sentence form. We ascribe some predicate to a given object. Say Mona Lisa is the most beautiful painting
ever made. Ascribing an predicate to a given object is the
same as to know what kind of conditions an object must satisfy in order to decide if the object in casu satisfy the conditions. The 'is' between S and P has 4 different
logical readings one of which is the existence. Ie there is
no much sense in ascribing an predicate to a not existent object. This would mean some quality without a bearer.
Now those 'new objects of art' or 'the shock of the new' as
you put it are obviously never seen before.Ie 'non existent'. So the most of us have no idea what predicate to put on or no idea what kind of conditions this new object
satisfy. The only way out seem to be some comparison with
'the old ,known one'. And there is our dilemma:it looks not similar to anything I know. Those who are educated in art are in a different position because they get the 'feeling' for the art and are able to recognise the 'new beauty' or something 'special' in an new object of art.
We in Holland have Van Gogh museum. The riddle: the most visitors come from Japan. The most of them come to Holland primary because of Van Gogh and, probably, tulips.
Regards, |
Well there are obvious problems in describing 'the shock
of the new' with the old predicates. Say: retro, Art Deco, Bakelite Telephone handle, etc. In the countries in which horses and iron were known the first seen locomotive was called the 'iron horse'. So no wonder there are those who
claim: there is nothing new under the son. However 'old' and 'new' are supposed to be different.
Regards,
|
Dear Halcro, Thuchan is already making my life difficult
with even threefold teasing in a single post. You obviously like to join him. Vidmantas , the designer/owner of the Reed, is a good friend of my but this is not, uh,
a sufficient condition to admire his tonearms in aesthetical sense. To be honest my position is that an tonearm needs to satisfy some other conditions first. As I
stated before I never thought about tonearms in aesthetical
context. But the FR-64S awaked in me this 'wondering' which
I called, by lack of the right vocabulary, 'mechanical beauty'. Now the lack of vocabulary in this whole thread is an obvious indication that the most of us are not 'aestheticaly educated'. No wonder than that we use 'old predicates' or expressions to describe the 'new objects of art'. To me this paradox is obvious. Ie 'old'
and 'new' are (pre) supposed to be different. But you obviously enjoy this 'field' of knowledge because you must feel in this domain like a king. You should however not extend this feeling to the domain of turntables and carts. There are boundaries , you know, even for the architects.
Regards, |
Hi Geoch, I thought you decided to grow 'Porporitas' or something and that your new philosophy of life was the modesty of an Greek farmer. But obviously Onasis is still there in your head. Mentioning explict the Pluto 9A, the Goldfinger, the Condor ,the Colibri, etc. Glad to see such consitency qua behaviour as well that at least some Greek are doing well. |
Hi Geoch, 'with a good word in your mouth?' Those are as far as I know writen 'words' usualy called 'arguments'.
'I'll be back' reminds me of some Austrian with an terrible
German accent. Only in the USA can such a person make a political carrer. Not to mention the former president.
Do you need my address in Holland? Otherwise you will have
no idea where to come 'back'? I am an Serbian warrior only
equaled by Dertonarms predecessors who defited the Romans.
So stay in Greece, you have problems enough at home.
|
Dear Daniel, I am sorry for my 'blunder' but I am only familiar with the Salzburger accent. Spend there two years.
Lucky me you are not questioning my comparison between the Serbian and the German warriors.So Geoch got a double warning.
Kind regards, |
Dear Daniel, You may be an expert in Austrian accents but
you are obviously not good informed about Serbian-Greek
realtionship. Those are the best and the only friends on the Balkan.
Cheers, |
Dear Daniel, I have both : the Reed 2A ,12'' and the Triplanar VII. The Reed is on an arm pod because this was the only possibility to use two tonearms with my Kuzma Stabi Reference. I don't look at them as the objects of art
but as instruments for specific task. The task however is
more related to the carts then the tonearms. In the Reed I
have the Phase Tech P-3G an LOMC with low compliance. In
the Triplanar the Benz Ruby 3S. Depending on the music kind
I prefer one above the other and vice versa. No conflicts
at all. BTW thy are not able to contradict me.
Regards,
|
Dear Daniel, I got both of your messages. So I derectly
swiched to the thread topic. However your advice regarding
the switch between carts I somehow anticipated a priori
and made the comparison some time ago. To me the Phase Tech
P-3G sounds much better in the Reed 2A.
Regards, |
Dear Thuchan, I was never credulous. So those who pretend
to be able to see in the future are to me fantast.
However this Mr.Six may be a real prophet regarding the Drachmas in Greece.
Cheers, |
Hi Hifihvn, Yes you are right Schwazenegger is a typical
Slavic name. But regarding the accent you are wrong. All my relatives speak English with the BBC accent, not German accent. And those in Austria and Germany speak hochdeutsch.
Regards, |
