Take the Graham series of unipivots.......a theory of design suited to elegance.
What Bob Graham delivers is something akin to an exhibit at a proctologists' convention. The only saving grace is that it is manufactured in matt black to disguise its clumsy proportions.
And then there's the Triplanar.......something the Soviets would launch against some Balkan uprising.
And this fashionable separation of VTA tower and arm is responsible for a whole brood of monsters.
Even the Reed (sorry Nandric) and its separated-at-birth twin the Talea show the inability of designers to come to terms with the consequences of this solution.
And then comes the latest horror.....the Kuzma 4 Point......the sister that even Quasimodo's family tried to hide.
Look at the Continuum Cobra as the exception that displays a design excellence in solving the very same conceptual problem?
So there are a lonely few modern arm designs still able to deliver innovation with beauty.
The Continuum Copperhead and DaVinci 12" Grandezza stand apart.
But God help us if our 'classic' tonearms of the future are to be selected from the current hapless choices?
Remember........classics are always beautiful. |
Dear Daniel,
What's your opinion of the sound of the Dynavector compared to other arms? |
Hi Jeff,
Eames-like.......a good description actually of the SME range :^)
Not really a modern design so perhaps reinforces my point? |
But the FR-64S 'awaked' in me this 'emotive feeling' of
admiration. After 30 years of ownership I am still 'wondering'. There is a deep thought in this English saying: 'a thing of beauty is a joy forever'. Dear Nandric, I know what you mean.....but can you please explain to me (because you are a well travelled man)....how it is that the inscrutable Japanese can design an arm like the FR-64S which has such a Teutonic aura? Regards Henry |
The one view of the new Telos tonearm that is published, would not qualify it in my books as a 'beautiful' object?
It may sound wonderful.......but that is not the point of this thread :^) |
Dear Atmasphere, yes, it can still has an aesthetic appeal and yes, you are right - the plane of the record needs to be meet by the bearing. The criteria will be meet .... pretty soon. I believe it has already been met COBRACOPPERHEADNot only do they move the tonearm aesthetic to a 21st century relevance.....but they are the best sounding arms I have ever heard. |
Wow....the shock of the new!
In the visual arts, a truly new aesthetic is often initially found to be ugly.
Cezanne, van Gogh and Gauguin brought new aesthetics which in turn lead to Cubism, the Fauves, Der Blau Reiter, Expressionism and Modern Art as we know it today. Van Gogh sold one painting during his lifetime.
Even Impressionism was initially considered ugly and confronting although marking the 'end' of Classical Painting rather than the 'beginning' of Modern Art?
As Director of the Aesthetics Police here......I hereby pronounce the Continuum arms to be 'beautiful' and 'functional' :-)
And Thuchan........if you are prepared to wait 5-10 years.....I predict that your Cobra and Copperhead will reward you on the 'Collectors' market, with prices unimaginable today?
All the while.......producing celestial sounds to soothe the savage beast. |
Bill,
Good taste is its own reward :^) |
OK Johnnyb,
As the Moderator here.....'modern' arms which do not advance the art and science of the design....are not of interest.
Otherwise we could have a 'modern' reproduction of the FR-66S?
Heh......now you're talking :-) |
Thales Simplicity arm?.......interesting.
Not ugly......certainly more beautiful than the Kuzma 4 Point.
How does it sound Leicachamp? |
To say that the Cobra/Copperhead designs have all been done before displays a cynicism or ignorance which is not shared by other arm designers.
We may as well say all pivoted tonearms do the same job and use principles of engineering and construction in various combinations?
Same for cartridges, turntables, amplifiers and speakers.
Move along.....no discussion here....nothing to see.
Oh....and no carbon fibre was hurt in the making of these arms :-) |
Dover,
Look at the shape and materials used in the arm construction and tell me it looks like all the other tonearms produced today?
To say it is similar to those plastic arms of the 50s is fatuous.
Look at the unipivot design with a stabilising pivot on a sapphire jewelled swash plate to maintain stability.
Look at the total lack of headshell?
Look at the cam-weighted anti-skate designed to increase as the arm moves inwards.
Look at the jewel-encapsulated unipivot.
Look at the tonearm wiring exiting from the top of the arm and how it's supported on a stainless steel hoop frame to avoid any pressure on the arm movement.
Look at the azimuth adjustment utilising the actual swash-plate?
Look at the ability (with the Copperhead) to have additional armwands which can be substituted complete with their fixed cartridges?
Look at the counterweight system design with its placement so far below the level of the turntable platter?
And finally.......listen to the results!
To say any one of these elements has been used before negates the fact that there is a vocabulary of successful design principles which is fairly
limited in regards to choice?
If you don't agree that the Cobra/Copperhead designs have advanced the state of the art then that is your prerogative.
Please provide an example of an arm that in your opinion does for us to analyse |
Dover,
That's right....the Cobra and Copperhead arms are dual pivots. Not too many of them around?
All the tonearms you define without headshells actually have very well defined headshells. The Syrinx PU2 even has a solid bar fixed across its armtube to which the cartridge is screwed. The other arms have a flattened out shaped metal headshellsl welded to the armtubes. Because you can't see the welds doesn't make the headshell invisible?
All the counterweights you cite are well above that of the Continuums but more importantly, change their Moments of Inertia about the pivot with each addition or subtraction of a counterweight.
Because the Continuum's counterweights face downwards, the Moment of Inertia about the pivot remains constant.
The ET2 wiring exits from the top and lies loosely across the arm putting lateral force into the arm tracking. There is no vertical support hoop as in the Continuums?
But the most important and revolutionary impact of the Continuums is the shape and material (not carbon fibre) of the tonearm and the way this shape and construction were calculated with the aid of aerospace computers.
A pivoted tonearm is a very complex structural diagram to plot.
It is not a full cantilever because it is semi-propped by the stylus.
It is also a counterweighted cantilever which gives a totally different vector forces diagram than a pure cantilever.
Almost every tonearm in history has tended to ignore this structural complexity and make the armtube constant shape from pivot to cartridge whilst others have tapered the tube in a classic cantilever response to stresses.
Neither one is structurally correct and when lateral movement is added to the equation, these two basic solutions are unsophisticated.
For the first time in history, the same computer power that designs the structure and air effects of Formula 1 cars is utilised for tonearms.
As for the fit and finish of the DaVinci qualifying it for 'advancing' the state of the art.....you surely jest?
I have the DaVinci, the FR-66S and the Copperhead head to toe on the Raven AC 3 and the 35 year old FR-66S looks newer than the 4 year old Grandezza. The Copperhead is perhaps a fraction below the fit and finish of the DaVinci...but not far at all. The SAEC WE308 is a notch higher than the Grandezza whilst the SAEC 407/23 is another notch further up and the Mixro Seiki MA505S is a clear 3 notches higher.
You obviously don't wish to see the facts behind these revolutionary arms but there are better judges than you or I who have already written their verdicts :^) |
Well Dover,
You play with your Vector.......uh....do you even have one?
And I'll listen to my Copperhead.
One of us will keep smiling :^) |
Dear Thuchan,
We are talking tonearms only.
When you take the Cobra or Copperhead off the Caliburn or Criterion and put them on a normal TT......you don't have a magnetically supported armboard. Pity ;^) |
Dover,
I was a little rash in defining 'Modern Arms' as advancing the art and science?
We all agree that...as Raul says....tonearms are not 'Rocket Science'.....unless you want it to be?
What I really meant by 'Modern Arms' as opposed to the classic arms of the 70s and 80s is the struggle for slight advances with new technologies whilst treating very seriously the important requirement for 'on the fly' adjustments.
Such arms are typified by the Phantom II with Magnaglide and Micropoise, the Triplanar, the Reed, the Durands and the Kuzma 4Point as well as the Continuums.
Having said that......the Micro Seiki MA-505 came with VTF, VTA and anti-skate ALL 'on-the-fly' 30 years ago. As well as having Azimuth adjustment and hydraulic elevating as well as descending arm mechanism.
With this amount of 'on-the-fly adjustment, it made extracting the finest performance from any cartridge particularly easy and thus compared, in sonic ability, to many superior arms of its time and even those of today. |
Well the Breuer and Brinkmann are not modern arms....but I don't find them particularly elegant.
The Raven pushes no boundaries and is rather pedestrian looking.
I much prefer the looks of the Shroeder arms in terms of their proportions and clarity of purpose.
Of the modern arms, some of the 12" upper Reed models are not so bad.
Happy Nandric? :^) |
The 'S' shaped arms are not a necessary factor for beautiful design.
Look at the DaVinci 12" Ref Grandezza and the Shroeder arms?
I think Dover nailed it with the current fad for 'complexity'.....the perceived 'need' to alter parameters 'on-the-fly'.
The Triplanar and then the VPI JMW Memorial arms initiated the principle of the separate support tower off which the actual bearing and arm could be attached. This principle has largely been adopted by the Reed and Talea and even the Cobra (although strangely enough.....not the Copperhead?)
As Dover questioned.......do these 'user-friendly' functions actually improve the sonic performance of the arms? |
Tbg........ the Ikeda IT-407CR1. Are you saying this is a 'beautiful' modern arm or are you using it as an example of my Thread? It's not the ugliest arm IMO that's for sure......but compared to the original FR-66s by the same designer over 30 years ago......I know which one I prefer visually :-) |
