I expect the Irony of both the name of this thread and his post will be lost on thyname :-) Mahgister, that is a lot of conspiracy theory and ideas presented as facts without evidence for one post. thyname742 posts07-11-2020 8:44amHey Mitch2 ——‘ people who don’t worry about cables are the happiest people in the world” —- quoting you.
Are you sure? Then why are you guys in every single cable thread you can find in the Internets? This is how you happy people spend your time? So wasting your time in topics you “don’t worry” about is part of your happiness? Not sure if this kind of thing is happiness much. More like miserable |
You mean convinced themselves there is a huge difference. Many an audiophile friend has claimed that to me, only for me to break their bubble by showing them that absent knowing what is connected, they couldn't tell the difference.
Not always. Had to debug a bad connection once, and one boutique cable had some awful electrical characteristics.
I have seen/heard many poorly matched phono cables too. Experienced bad shielding as well, and inadequate power cable grounds leading to ground noise pumping.
Seen some questionable engineering on components too.
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But how do you know the cables you like MGlik do the least harm to the signal. Only way to prove that is with .... Wait for it
Wait for it
Wait for it
Measurements!
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And maybe one day in the future some audiophiles will realize the difference between good sound, and sound that is exactly the same but costs a whole lot more and stop trying to convince other audiophiles to make the same mistake. These same audiophiles already reject all sort of measurement but are quite happy to believe made up marketing material. I am sure if measurements improve they will reject those too.
And it is all quite silly as no one is saying that measurements indicate how an individual will perceive sound quality at least on this topic. What they are saying is that the reported changes from a cable change don’t match reality at least in a significant number of cases of what changing a cable could possibly do.
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Is that the real problem boxer12? ... that you only have some hobby level experience, but I have educational, research and practical experience in electronics, signal processing and acoustics? ... does it make you feel inadequate? ... it must, because you spend an awful lot of effort to attack me, but fail miserably at attacking my information and ideas. That's probably why your posts are just hand waving at best, and mine contain clear, concise concepts. I am sorry if I make you feel inadequate, but alas, we can't all have the same skill set. Have you thought about a hobby that does not make you feel inadequate?
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iso .. you are another one. You guys work so hard to discredit me. Not my ideas either, me personally. Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will always stump you :-) ... cheers
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That is because you only waste your time in threads about audio jewellery whatsyourname. Don’t blame me. Sorry another swing and a miss ISO. Good thing this is T-ball. They give out participation awards.
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Your lack of ability to understand what I post is not funny @andy2. Is that why you have not responded in YOUR thread with measurements of 2 cables as you said you would, and that you have not responded w.r.t. the Pass paper issue I noted? |
Couldn't possibly come from decades of experience and numerous tests ... and not just with my ears, but with many other ears. I am sure many of those ears were just as "qualified" as many on here. mahgister2,826 posts07-13-2020 8:01pmSome has disdain for solutions that dont come from them or dont have a place in their frame of mind.... :)
not
me, i guess i was an audiophile, because the most important was for me
to win a good hi-fi by my own means only ( i dont have the luxury of
money). |
Nope, no cats, but perhaps a chicken?
@thyname, are you incapable of using the search function? I am, and I would never have searched for your interaction with other people here, but your incessant attacks, made me curious. I must say, you are rather notorious.
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It is well known that bullies call other people bullies when people stand up to them. Given that there are at least 4 people piling on, it is pretty obvious who the bullies are now isn’t it. You know what is really funny @thyname, I would know absolutely nothing about you if you didn’t claim I was someone else but you did, so that made me think they probably made you look bad too. Now it all makes sense. I know exactly who you are. You are that dude that runs back to Audio Subjective every time someone dares to say cables are not as important as you believe. People have also accused you of making another forum toxic, and making that forum yet another forum that is mainly about complaining. You epitomize bullying. Aren’t you banned from ANA? thyname755 posts07-13-2020 10:44pm+1 speedbump6 for standing up to the Bully! atdavid736 posts11-15-2019 1:45amGood laugh Skerdi. If only you knew how many people blocked you on FB because you weirded them out. Shouldn’t you be running to report back to Ted or something right now?
thyname432 posts11-14-2019 9:21pm“‘’ atdavid, you sure are a nosey f%@*$er. And quite creepy“”
No s@&*%t, you just realized that now? That’s what this guy does, full time. It’s his job. Every single Facebook group and audio forum. He has mastered the art of trolling. Can’t beat him I am afraid |
dandy,
You have no idea what that means. You renege on your challenges and run away when you lose. Look at the 3 of you ... trying to gang up like little school yard bullies. You make me laugh. whatshisname even sounds like a school yard bully. Excellent company you guys are keeping with each other.
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Heck, maybe that is because moving your chair 1 inch will make a lot bigger difference than changing most cables .... but someone who makes a cable challenge and then does not follow through on it, or who posts a marketing blurb about feedback may not know that.
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Gee ... 4, 5 people dog-piling (rather ineffectively). boxer12, your lack of self reflection is .... What is hilarious is between you, whatshisname, dandy2, ISO, etc. you still can’t make a reasonable argument between all of you. All you have are personal insults. Watch ...whatshisname will respond with an insult to this, likely dandy2 ... Look how fast my point was proven. I must say boxer12, you run in good company. Don't hold it against him though, I understand he has always felt inadequate. That is why he lashes out. thyname758 posts07-13-2020 11:54pmDid you fix the Internet yet fat boy? How is life in your mommy’s basement? 😂😂 |
Oh give it a break speedbump6,
Look at you, dandy, boxer, you guys en-mass are making many more posts than I am. How does one develop such an incredible lack of self awareness and self reflection. As well, you seem to lack reading comprehension or only hear what you want to hear.
Let me type this slowly so that it is totally clear. I have run many blind tests with other people as the listeners. If I have a bias it is meaningless as I was not the test subject. Your argument is akin to you not being able to tell two cables apart and blaming me for the result.
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I am sorry I just ran over the speedbump, but the topic of this thread is, "Who says cables don’t make a difference?"
After 9 pages, that still seems to be lost on you. Who says? I say (and others), but most don’t have the experience and hence the confidence to back that statement up, and qualify it as required.
Cleeds was just attempting to invent a psychological theory (where the opposite is usually true), as opposed to considering that perhaps, just perhaps, expectation bias is a bigger issue than most want to believe.
Who says cables don't make a difference? ..... is this not a call out to challenge the notion that cables do make a difference. Otherwise just make a post called, "Love fest for cable differences", and be honest.
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You just raised pedantic to a whole new level. I have done fully controlled double blind testing in research lab environments, and more simplistic single blind testing too many times to count .... which is one times more blind than I expect most people commenting on this thread have ever done. It's hard to put bias into a test process that involves nothing more than swapping cables. Great thing about that is you rarely even need to level balance, and not level balancing would increase the detection threshold not reduce it. I am not a "casual observer". For example, you’ve made it clear that you don’t think the
differences between competent cables is audible. You’ve poisoned the
well by conveying that to a test subject; you’ve given him a reason
("power of suggestion") to find no difference. This is wishful thinking. Remember what is being tested. What is being tested is that the person making the claim of (usually) a readily apparent audible difference is able to actually perceive in a blind situation the difference. No more. No less. Your "poisoning" actually does not fit typical psychological reactions. Normally when a persons beliefs are challenged, they will work extra hard to prove those beliefs, not fold like a wet blanket. |
I am sorry you don't understand the most fundamental thing here Cleeds, which is --it is not the cable that is being tested--, it is the audiophile. You went on a rant telling me I don't know how to do testing, but you don't even know what is being tested. Don't now play the victim game.
However, one can make the statistical conclusion after testing many audiophiles with many cables, that most of the claims they make w.r.t. cables making a significant difference in the sound To Them, are just that, claims. I don't need them to be biased or unbiased, because again, I am not testing cables, I am testing whether audiophiles can detect the changes in cables that they report absent visual clues.
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Cleeds,
You are being needlessly pedantic yet illustrating you have not actually done double blind testing and don't understand design of experiments.
If you want to test something, ideally you don't tell the people at all what they are even testing, and in some cases that can be controlled. Rarely it can. We are having a drug trial for a cancer drug but we are not going to tell the cancer patient its a cancer drug as they may be biased toward it working .... see how silly it sounds. We should also include people who don't have cancer :-)
And again, you are wrong. WE ARE testing whether an individual can reliably detect which of two cables is which. That is all. No more, no less. We are not testing two things at the same time. Wow, it's like you really don't understand design of experiments at all. The individual is making the claim They can detect it. They are not making the claim someone somewhere can detect it, they are making the claim They can detect it. Testing a large group of people would be meaningless, as it would only provide a statistical answer, not an exact answer for that person.
If I wanted to test in general whether a cable could possibly introduce an audible change, then yes, I would have to have a large number of test subject and it would only take one person within that group to reliably detect a change for the conclusion to be that it can be done, but if only one person did, I could claim on average most can't. BUT .... I am not testing the cable, I am testing the audiophiles claim w.r.t. cables.
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Outscienced?
You guys are literally anti-science. You don't even know what the question is, so how could you design an experiment. Call me what you want Cleeds, but the experiment is very clear, and the thing being tested is not the cable, it's the audiophile. My assertions are not rigid, they are accurate and informed, that is why in another thread I am arguing against someone who I know is blindly based on a very limited knowledge set claiming essentially you can't get noise via USB from a computer ....
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If you believe Fed Denney does double blind testing then I have some swamp land in Florida for you.
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Nope, you totally feel inadequate and whatshisname ...totally inadequate. Ditto for speedbump. Can't resist jumping en-mass onto my posts in some weird need for street cred or something, but alas, same tired arguments, or really lack thereof ... my ears! my ears! my ears! ... you guys make me laugh. You really are a hoot.
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Pretty much a given that boxer12 and andy2 are the same person. They virtually always seem to post at the same time, usually on the same or related threads .... weird.
Let me type slow .... for you. Your brain has awful audio memory, and your eyes influence auditory perception. Self awareness would generally make most people realize their limitations. p.s. You and pandy have mentioned measurements probably 10 times more than I have in this thread ... just putting that out there.
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Now if only someone had some independent double blind tests that compared competent and expensive cables ...hmm... 10's of manufacturers, not one public test to promote their wares. Weird huh dude?
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Hey pandy, when are going to follow through on the challenge you made. @djones51, is still waiting for you to man up and follow through, or at least admit your "challenge" was all bluster. You have not got the first clue what class is.
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