The Raidho's are a viable alternative for a wealthy audiophile who lives in an apartment with limited listening space. They do compete on some level with any other fine speaker, but for me, given a large listening room, there are at least a few other speakers I still prefer. I even was more thrilled with those Volti Audio Vittora speakers I also heard at the CAF. The Raidho's might become fatiguing over the long haul.
32/192 and 32/384 quoted resolution for digital audio reminds me of the horsepower race in automobile marketing or the Watts race in transistor amplifier marketing or the pixel count on digital TV screens. It's specious. There is very little if any source material that achieves such high resolution. The software is always the limiting factor. |
Obviously, it's a different ball game if you add subs to the Raidho's. Don't dismiss the Volti speakers just because they are, in part, horn-loaded. I don't much care for horns, either, but the Vittorias are special and don't need subwoofers to be so. |
Raul, Yes, I have my eyes open for especially a Nelson Pass design. (I did not know he made one under the "Threshold" brand name. I know about the Pass Labs one.) They don't come up often and are expensive. I am trying to keep my investment "modest", but since such devices usually hold value, I could rationalize the expense. |
Dear Nandric, Ironic, is it not, that you are using a tonearm Raul dislikes greatly to evaluate a cartridge you bought because of Raul's recommendation. And you like it. Anyway, I hope all is well. I have no animosity against anyone. |
Hi Raul, In the above post, in the second paragraph, you seem to be ranking the Ortofon Anna as being above many of the other expensive LOMCs currently available. Were you aware of those digital downloads created by M Fremer, where he played the same LP with 9 different medium to low priced cartridges, on a VPI Traveler? He also provided a 10th download using his Continuum Caliburn with Continuum tonearm, on which he mounted the Anna. I wonder what you thought of that comparison. He published the 10 downloads as unknowns and asked listeners to rank them in order of preference sonically. Not many preferred the Continuum/Anna combo above all the others. I did not do the listening test myself.
I think the idea to do this was just asking for trouble, and he got some. |
I did not know that MF had published the results of his listener poll. (I would not call it a contest, exactly.) Thanks for the URL. Yes, John Ellison, on VA, pointed out that the length of the cut was shorter (or longer?) for one of the 10 downloads than for any of the others. John then correctly guessed that that cut must have derived from the Caliburn. From that moment forward, everyone knew that download #5 was the Caliburn/Anna sound. But MF should have made certain that both tt's were at the exact same speed beforehand. As you suggest, the difference in speed between the Traveler and the Caliburn may well have altered the results. |
PS. My remark about the Anna derived from one of your recent previous posts, wherein it seemed that you placed the Anna in high regard. I infer that I misunderstood you. |
So you think the 150ANV (and maybe the 2M Black) surpasses all the vintage MM and MI cartridges that we have been discussing for the past 5 years?
I think very highly of Ortofon, as well. No matter how one model or another may sound, they are well engineered and very well made. I still like the MC7500 I bought from you. You would be surprised, as was I, that it sounds really good on my RS-A1 tonearm |
I don't know whether Nandric is lurking here, but I think Nandric reported that Axel can glue a new stylus tip to a cantilever. It's a long way from Australia to Axel, however. You might also inquire with Sound Smith. You might also consider replacing the cantilever with a ruby one + LC stylus, a la Sound Smith. Great sound on my Grace Ruby. Probably would not sound exactly like the original 100C, but might be even better. |
So Dave, Are you saying that if I have an NOS 4000D/III (still in wrapper), that I am likely to have the needed high loft clip, or is it a crapshoot? Thanks for all the info. I will follow up on Audio Circle. Problem there is that in order to see photos, you have to register or be a member a priori. |
Raul, I always heard the vdH gets his styli from Expert in the UK. Ultimately, they probably all come from the Orient. Not to many companies making styli, and if you gear up to make them, you can probably make millions of them.
What is unique about vdH styli? Does he use the same shape on all his many products? |
Clearly, I either have lost typing skill or my grammar is going to Hell. I hope it's the former. The "the" before vdH is not needed. "to" should be "too". |
Raul didn't respond, but thank you for the information on the Gyger styli, Nandric. After I posted I remembered that Expert in the UK makes the Paratrace stylus shape which they will NOT sell to another re-tipper. I got my story wrong. Or so I believe.
Being #11,111 is no big deal. Wait until #99,999, if any of us is around to see it. |
I don't recall that anyone ever mentioned the 4000D/I, but why not look it up in Vinyl Engine or on an Empire website to determine how it may differ from D/III? Often the early versions of the better cartridges are also very good. On the D/III, there is a "Gold" version. As I recall, Raul did not like the Gold version as well as he liked the plain D/III. Many others did give high marks to the D/III Gold. I've got an NOS D/III Gold that I have yet to audition, and may never audition at my current rate of progress. |
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Fleib, I think you are searching for a mystery where there is none. We have been told twice that the cantilever is "something special". We need look no further than that. Somethingspecial is an alloy of "something" and "horsefeathers". You have to get it from the single monk who concocts a tub of it every once in a while; he lives high in the Himalayas. Hence the high cost. He prefers LOMC cartridges.
DGarretson, How are you liking the SoundSmith re-tipped Grace Ruby? I finally put mine into play last week. It is "different" from my OEM Grace Ruby, still with its elliptical stylus. Not sure whether it's better or just different. Certainly, it is good. |
Not I, but wow wow wow, it must be the greatest thing since... my last fetish. |
Dgob, Better than the vaunted Glanz cartridges? Highphonic is a strain gauge type; yes? |
I will answer my own question: it's an MC, not a strain gauge. Which begs the question around which there have so far been more than 11,000 posts here. |
We had this discussion a year or more ago, when Raul was afoot. I mentioned that loading down the 980LZS below 1000R was a no-go in my system for exactly the same reason you mention, Fleib. It sounded dull and bass-heavy. At that point, Raul jumped on me. Anyway, like you, I load the 980 at 1000R, happily. For conventional HOMM cartridges, I usually start at 100K ohm for load, and work down from there, but I have never tried less than 47K.
Dave, Are you intimating that you may prefer the AT20SS to the ART7?
Now that I have two systems up and sometimes running, I feel the need for another phono stage, and I want it to be flexible as is Dave's XP25, but cheaper. Have any of you heard the iFi iPhono? It's getting a lot of raves ever since Fremer gave it a rave, but an endorsement from one of you trusted friends would go a longer way to convincing me to buy one. The price is certainly right. |
Thanks, Dave and Fleib. No comments on the iFi iPhono? I think I could build a killer power supply for it that would ramp up the performance. I could probably do the same for the Vista Phono (which I have never heard of until this moment). It's not hard to beat a 12V wall wart. I built an outboard PS for my Klyne 6LX/P that really works well. (The 6LX originally differed from the 6LE in having an outboard PS, in the first place. I re-capped the audio chassis, in addition to building a no-holds-barred outboard PS, sent it to Klyne for latest voltage regulators and upgrades to phono.) |
Raul dissed the early Soundsmith strain gauge for its reported failure to conform closely to RIAA equalization (or at least to meet Raul's personal stringent rules on that subject). Peter Ledermann rebutted, and a heated discussion ensued. I have since heard that the latest SS strain gauge does a better job of adhering to RIAA. Regardless of all that, I too would love to hear a good one in my system, be it Panasonic, Win, Soundsmith, or whatever. |
Dear Audie, Did not receive either an email to my Yahoo or a message via Audiogon, so far as I know. Please try again. (I will check Audiogon "MyPage" as well.)
Dear Fleib, You make a valid point re Raul's obsession with RIAA hyper-accuracy. I always thought it was a way of pointing out obliquely the shortcomings of tube-based phono stages, as compared to his Phonolinepreamp. Because no tube-based phono stage can achieve and maintain the level of accuracy that Raul deemed to be a sine qua non. (The key word being "maintain", because as tubes age, the exact correct values of R and C needed to achieve perfect RIAA will also change.) Anyway, it only bothered me when he "talked down" to those of us who prefer tubes, implying that we "like" distortion. I actually miss the SOB. |
Evidently Roger Modjeski never "saw" an LCR type phono circuit.
Fleib, I was not arguing your point. I know how most RIAA networks are built and why. I don't think Raul made up the issue of the non-compliance of the Sound Smith strain gauge to RIAA; I think it was measured and reported by some reviewer, and Raul took it from there. If I can fairly recount Peter's rebuttal it was mostly that the reviewer was in error, the deviation was not so extreme as reported, and that +/-0.1db RIAA accuracy (Raul's sine qua non) was unnecessarily strict (an idea with which I agree, for several reasons including the one you posit). The fact that latest iterations of the SS strain gauge are said to have "improved" RIAA conformity suggests there indeed was some issue which has now been addressed. But anything I have written here is hearsay or "read"-say. Apologies to Peter if I've got it wrong. YMMV, etc. I certainly have no informed opinion, because I have yet to hear any strain gauge, let alone the SS one. I'd love to do so. |
Fleib, You asked whether I have ever experienced one of Modjeskie's "direct-drive" ESLs. In fact, I am the owner of a pair of Beveridge 2SW speakers with their original direct-drive amplifiers, built and signed by RM in 1979. The amplifiers are THE most finicky fussy pieces of audio gear in my entire experience, but perfecting them is very rewarding. The speakers are very very special when the amps are happy. I can compare them directly to my highly modified Sound Lab speakers driven by my modified Atma-sphere amplifiers. I know it's wretched excess, but I love them both. |
Fleib, We have no argument as regards RIAA accuracy. In my initial post I merely recounted the interaction between Raul and Peter Ledermann, who took umbrage when Raul categorically dismissed his SG cartridge because it was reported by a third party (Stereophile???) to be a little too inaccurate (Raul's criteria) at one or both ends of the audio spectrum, in terms of RIAA. I have no dog in this fight. My comment about LCR phonos was really only a snide one in response to your Modjeski quote. My salient point was that we don't need an authority such as RAM to tell us that most RIAA networks employ a series of RC filters to achieve the 3 "shelves" in the RIAA curve. The rare ones that don't use RC usually do use LCR filtering. My apologies for being snide. If I were to hear the SoundSmith SG, I would judge it on its audible merits only. Further, during my Raul-inspired wanderings in the MM/MI world, I have come to believe that there is much to like in MI cartridges, and so I am more than ready to believe the Susurro and its brethren are very very good.
As to cartridges sounding "fast", I never know what that means. I think it's like the Supreme Court definition of pornography; I can't define "fast", but I know it when I hear it. Some say "lean" cartridges sound "fast". Go figure. But no one should say that MCs are fast because of low mass; MI cartridges as a class are lower in moving mass and should be "faster". |
It was not my intention to indict RM for the instability of the Beveridge direct-drive amplifiers. I really don't understand the circuit well enough to critique it. But it's fair to say that some pretty smart EE types who have worked on these amps have also been stumped on occasion. As for me, I brought some of my problems on myself by substituting parts that just cannot be substituted, as it turns out. Even replacing an original capacitor with a physically larger capacitor can de-stabilize the amplifier, just based on physical size. I have learned my lessons the hard way. |
Fleib, Do you know how they loaded the cartridges in that German survey? I cannot read the German. Between you and Dover, an interesting point is raised. The Koetsu cartridges are often damned for having rolled off hf response. Perhaps their sin is really that they don't exhibit the rising high end common to other brands, thus suffering in the "brightness" category, by comparison. |
Hi Tim, I do plan to call SS one of these days, after I gather a bit more information.
Audpulse, I certainly will do as you suggest, mount the Grace LC in some other of my too many tonearms. But I had wondered whether someone here could point to the DV505 as being a mismatch for the SS LC stylus, for some obscure reason. Apparently not.
Fleib, I had a lot of prior experience with my OEM Grace Ruby in this very exact same set-up; it sounds divine. I need to go back to it for reference, though, because it is possible that the Acutex sounds even better. This is my Beveridge system. The Bev speakers will reveal differences equivalent to the difference in comfort level achieved by inserting a pea under a dozen mattresses, and I'm no princess.
Nandric, Do you know of anyone who can re-tip with ruby/sapphire cantilever and elliptical stylus or something closer to elliptical geometry? |
Pkoegz, Perhaps you have seen my posts several days back where I noted my (current) puzzlement as to how to judge my Grace Ruby cum SS OCL stylus. It had a promising first few hours in my system and then became and remains rather shrill and irritating, compared to my other completely OEM Grace Ruby and compared to another very good MM (or IM), the Acutex LPM320. So, I have questions for you: What tonearm are you using? What VTF? Did you have the opportunity to listen to your Ruby prior to the re-tip, with its standard elliptical stylus, and if so, how did it compare? I guess also it's relevant to ask how you are loading the re-tipped Grace; I am using 100K with no added capacitance, which works great with my OEM Grace. Thanks. |
Fleib, Never having heard one of these devices, I share your skepticism. However, Audpulse apparently has heard the 12AX7 version in his or some other person's Marantz 7C, and he's evidently impressed. That's all we've got to go on. Like you, I've got to think that if they were truly revolutionary from an audiophile standpoint, I would be reading about them on TubeDIY and other such threads. Still, never hurts to keep an open mind. |
Audpulse, So far as I know, the phono stage in the Marantz 7C in completely original form IS MM-ready. There was no such thing as an MC cartridge back in its day. It probably does develop higher than average gain compared to a typical modern MM phono stage, because of the bass and treble and other contour controls built into it; such filters suck up some gain, so a little excess is needed. |
Dear Audie, Is the 12AXT a vacuum tube or a solid state device? (If it has no filament, it MUST be solid state, actually.) If the latter, do you know for a fact that it can be dropped in a 7C to replace the 12AT7s or the 12AX7s? (I forget which tube type is used in the 7C, thought it was 12AT7.) Where and in what context did the "12AXT" blow your mind?
As to modifying a 7C, sure, there are many ways to upgrade it with modern parts that did not exist back then. But I personally would not mess with the tube types originally chosen, unless I wanted to change the sound altogether. Just my $.02 |
Follow-up: A Google search on "12AXT" brings up nada about any such device. I then tried searching on "12AXT tube", then "12AXT transistor", again with no result except a list of references to the "12AX7" vacuum tube that we all know about. Aud, what's up? Thanks. |
Holy cow! That's illegal! Perhaps the reason I could not find it under "12AXT" is the fact that its name is "12AX7-WS". What a clever idea. Has anyone besides Audpulse heard one of these devices? Based on specs, it should not give any more gain than a 12AX7 vacuum tube, but if one were to replace an aging 12AX7 with a WS, then it would subjectively appear to have more gain. And I was wrong; the OEM Marantz 7C does indeed use 12AX7s (not 12AT7s).
From the blurb, it would appear that AMT has also made solid state replacements for other tube types. |
Audie, My use of the word "illegal" was meant to be taken as humor. Nothing more than that.
The device described on the website appears to be electrically identical to a 12AX7 tube (except I did not see a rating for "mu", which parameter best describes the gain of a vacuum tube). Does AMT have high and low mu versions of this product? Do you know the mu values for both or either? |
Audie, There are many many things that could be done to upgrade a 7C. First of all, replace the selenium rectifiers with Schottky diodes, but in doing so, you need to be sure that the voltages don't change much. Then you can upgrade the filter capacitors in the PS. I agree with Fleib that a 12AU7-like tube would be better in the output stage, but you also need to change some resistors to increase the current flow to the output tube; 12AU7s need much more current than 12AX7, in order to sound best. But I would not even use a 12AU7; I would use a 12FQ7. Much better sounding than any 12AU7. (I've made the comparison in the context of a Quicksilver preamp.) Coupling capacitors can all be upgraded to teflon types or whatever you like. Beyond this, I would need to see a schematic. Anyway, you'd need a schematic in order to revise the circuit for a better output tube, |
My next mod to my Silvaweld phono stage, which I use for MM cartridges, will be to install a rotary switch to allow switching among different load resistances and to add capacitance. At the moment, I am using 100K fixed load in the Silvaweld. I make no claims that there is any magic associated with a 100K load. Years ago, independent of Raul and before I knew he existed, I proved to myself that 100K was superior to 47K for one and only one cartridge, the Grado TLZ. I have never made comparisons with other cartridges.
Harmon, Raul has left the building in search of Elvis. |
Harold, When you say you use 20pF of capacitance, I have to assume you are ADDING 20pF to the inherent capacitance of the whole circuit from cartridge leads to phono input. Since the inherent capacitance is typically 100pF to 150pF, depending upon cables, etc, you might consider that the capacitative load seen by your five MM cartridges is more like 120pF to 170pF. Could even be higher. I typically add zero capacitance to the existing capacitance in the circuit, but as noted I've been using 100K as a load.
To add to Fleib's info on phono stages with variable input loading, nearly all the Japanese integrated amplifiers and preamplifiers of the 70s and 80s, and even beyond, provided these adjustments. Many of them even had two phono inputs, one fixed and one with adjustable loading. (See especially Pioneer, Sony, Accuphase, Yamaha,etc.) Also, in the last few years, manufacturers have awakened to this need, and there are now several products that allow selection of load resistance. Not too many yet allow for adding capacitance, that I know of. |
Harold, Sounds like you got your hands on some VERY low capacitance cable, is all I can say. There is added capacitance at the input of a tube phono stage; capacitance develops between the grid and the plate and between the grid and the cathode of a vacuum tube. Typical tube phono stages use a 12AX7 tube at the input, because of its high gain. "Miller capacitance" is a statement that the total capacitance at the grid is also a function of gain. Thus, the 12AX7 has quite a high Miller capacitance, up around 150pF by one calculation. You can easily look it up. There's also a little capacitance associated with any connectors in the path and the wire inside the tonearm. If you have a solid state phono stage, the ss input device can also add some capacitance in parallel with the signal. Different types of transistors (e.g. JFETs vs bipolar types) are different in this regard. |
Hi Henry, I guess I was thinking specifically of the K&K phono stages. They will build it with adjustable MM loading, if the customer requests it. As I understand it, the load R and C can be selected without opening up the top of the unit. The K&K phono stages are superb by all accounts. Also, doesn't the more expensive EAR phono stage provide for cartridge loading? And the Manley Steelhead definitely does. I think also the latest Parasound by John Curl does. Others may chime in here with additional choices. My Atma-sphere MP1 allows the user to install any value capacitor and/or resistor as a cartridge load, via external screw-terminal binding posts. However, the MP1 circuit is built normally for MC cartridges, with lots of gain; there is an option to reduce gain for MM, if so desired.
Yes, I saw that TW Acustic phono stage at a local show. I like its retro look. Too bad it is not actually retro enough to deal with MM cartridge loading. |
Dear 3ox (and Fleib), I think your point was well taken. It is not likely that the Acoustat X speaker, to which Fleib refers, could stand 50kV on its stators for more than a few seconds before a spectacular explosion might occur. Typical DC voltages for ESLs range from as low as 1500V to, maybe, 10kV tops. For example, my Sound Lab speakers probably put about 5kV to 7kV on the stators (best guess), whereas my Beveridge speakers operate at 3200V. |
Should have added that it is entirely possible the Acoustat X operates at circa 10kV, but not 50kV for sure. |
Sorry for 3 straight posts on this off-topic subject, but I just looked up the specs of the Acoustat X direct-drive amplifier. It operates at 5000V (5kV), not 50kV. That makes sense. Should have used Google in the first place. |
Someone, maybe SoundSmith should make an adapter out of metal. SS do sell an adapter for the very high price of $50, but I know nothing about its build quality. Anyone? |
Since I've had my Beveridge speakers up and running, I have become fascinated with direct-drive for ESLs. Your discussion (Fleib and Kevin) makes me wonder whether the Acoustat X amplifiers could be adapted to run my Sound Lab 845PXs. 5kV might be a little too low for those beasts, but maybe not.
Fleib et al, I sheepishly admit that although I amassed a nice collection of MM/MI cartridges during Raul's reign here, I really have only ever listened at length to 3-4 of them: Acutex LPM320 Grace Ruby Stanton 980/981LZS Grado TLZ (my own old stash)
Of the following in my collection, which ones might be expected to compete with or surpass the above: Acutex M320 B&O MMC1 AKG (any, I've got 2 or 3) AT20SS Stanton 881S Empire 4000D III
I never found a good Signet or Technics or whatever the brand was that starts with "MF" as in MF100/200/300 or Glanz. Unfounded opinions are welcome. |
I've also got an Empire 1000ZE/X, with NOS stylus. That was an early favorite here, for about a month. It then faded from discussions. I have more that I cannot even recall off the top of my head.
My B&O is NOS. What I don't live about it in principle is that you've got to use the flimsy plastic adapter in order to use it with a conventional tonearm; I am sure that adapter must flex and lose information that is really available electrically. |
For "live" in the first sentence of my second para, read "like", of course. Too bad one cannot edit one's own posts. |
Fleib, What problem???? I perceive no problem with the 980LZS, as long as the load R is 1000 ohms or higher. I don't see that as a problem with the cartridge. Moreover, having re-tipped one of my two Grace Ruby cartridges with the most expensive SS ruby OCL cantilever/stylus, I am no longer so quick to re-tip with non-original styli. The re-tipped Ruby is disappointing. And finally, I have a second 981LZS with is NOS, just in case. Not to mention a Pickering XSV7500, as well (forgot to put that on my list above). |
Acman et al, I once spoke to Peter Ledermann about this issue of P mount adapters. SS do in fact make adapters for B&O cartridges, probably because there many B&O cartridges in circulation that have become separated from their original adapters over time, i.e., there is a market for it. The price, however, is or was $50, as quoted by Peter. If it's made of metal, or is in any way regardless of materials more structurally rigid and more tightly associated to the cartridge than is the original, I too would be a buyer. Meantime, this conversation stimulated me to do an internet search, and I found that Ortofon makes what looks to be a very nice adapter, available from the Needle Doctor for $11. I just bought one. |