When Prof. Hibino demonstrated his ''Zenn MCZ'' to Klipsch ,
Klipsch was so impressed that he ordered 4 kinds each with
different cantilever because Klipsch was convinced that
different cantilevers will produce different timbre satisfying
this way different tastes: aluminum (alloy), boron, sapphire and diamond.
As J. Carr explained in our forum the advantage of aluminum is
that stylus can be pressure fitted while this method provide better
rigidity to the combo then glued styli in the ''éxotic materials''. The glue between stylus and cantilever is obviously not a good thing.
There is however one other kind of ''between'' which is never
mentioned. The so called ''joint pipe'' on which also the coils and
tension wire are fastened. This part is usually made from aluminum.
By many carts one can see this part just behind the cantilever.
By the latest Van den Hul's this part looks longer than the boron
part...
So it ''follows'' (?) that diamond cantilever/stylus combo made
from one piece of diamond is different kind of animal. However
even this animal needs ''joint pipe'' made from aluminum as
is the case by Sony XL 88 D.
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My dear Slavic brother, ''big'', ''long'' etc. descriptions are logical
not ''sound''. The reason is that presupposed comparisons
are described as properties of objects. Being ''long in Holland''
means something totally different than being ''long in Greece or
Italy''. I was long in Serbia but am shorter in Holland. I.e. relational
sentences can't be described with ''subject is predicate '' form.
You have also try the same ''method'' with ''little'' suggesting that
very little glue between the stylus and cantilever is as ''good''
as no glue at all. I love you but the truth even more . The same
stated Aristoteles about Plato: ''amicus Plato sed veritas amicitat''.
Does ''very short pipe'' mean no pipe at all?
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@edgewear, ''Based on its construction and design I would expect
''it'' to have some similarities with my Ikeda 9 Rex''. I also own
Ikeda's Rex but need to guess what you mean with ''similar'' ?
Do you mean Halcro's Decca?
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@edgewear, chakster actually warned against Victor MC's
series ''direct coupled'' kinds with his statement ''it is hard to
find working samples''. The reason is the etched coils on an
small silicon plate. The coils are from aluminum connected with
very vulnerable (thin) copper wire soldered on aluminum coils.
The copper wire is glued on the cantilever and connected with
4 output pins. The soldered connection is the weak part of
the construction because the wire usually breaks there.
That is why ''it is hard to find working samples''.
My Ikeda Rex feels insulted by your comparison (grin).
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chakster, I am sorry for my ''improper'' conduct by not following
your advise to go back to your JVC-MC1 thread but I was
so impressed with edgewear comment that I want to elaborate on
his ''linguistic finding''. The linguistic constructions which can be
true or false are (complete) sentences, propositions or statements
and not expressions or words. However sometime some expression
can ''enlighten'' some issues in such way that ''long descriptions''
are not needed,
His expression ''fragile'' to describe JVC MC kinds is pretty plain
while ART 1000 make this so to speak also visible.
Now those ''passionate cart collectors'' even without Mexican
temper are probably not able to ''grasp'' that others may be
satisfy with, say, ''only 3 or so'' carts. Trying to seduce this kind
of people to buy such ''fragile'' kinds is not what our forum is
about. Our forum is about information exchange. As objective
as possible. ''Objective'' in this sense may be called ''inter-subjective''.
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Assumptions and deductions. Assumptions can be ''translated''
as premise and deductions as deductions from the premise.
The general logical rule then is: if the premise is not true than
also deductions can't be true.
The, say, ''Aussie premise'' is that the only difference between
XL-88 and XL-88D is the cantilever/stylus combo which is by
88D made from one piece of diamond while XL -88 has boron
cantilever and glued in ''super elliptical stylus''. Their price
difference can be explained by complexity of ''cutting'' and polishing
of the diamond. BTW the first Van den Hul stylus designed for
Gyger (aka Gyger 1) was so complex that many samples were
lost. That is why Gyger 2 with less complex shape and dimensions
was produced.
I ever started a thread with title ''irreparable carts'' and mentioned
explicit XL-88D and all ZYX as such. Both have glued together
''plastic bodies'' whit no entrance to inside parts. If, say, the
damping needs substitution there is no way to fix this problem.
Mori-san the inventor of the 8 figure coil former by XL series
stated that repair of his XL-88 and 88D is not possible.
My friend Axels Schurholz deed try for two years to fix my 88D
and then give up.
Ergo from the premisse it follows that diamond cantilever/
stylus made form one piece of diamond is superior to
''ordinary boron kind'' but this does not imply that all
diamond cantilevers are superior. All those with glued in
styli in particular. The curious ''damping theory'' of the
used glue between stylus and cantilever is an wonder in
the context of the ''rigidity theory''.
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''Slightly scientific'' argument is , say, '' stolen'' from our beloved
J. Carr who stated that the advantage of aluminum cantilevers
is that stylus can be pressure fitted while by the ''exotic kinds''
the stylus must be glued in. Aka ''suggesting'' the relevance of
''rigidity theory'' in this context .
BTW I owned both kinds of the XL 88. Despite the fact that my
88 D sample have had ''crooked'' cantilever/stylus and consequently
the headshell looked as ''adjusted'' by either an drunkard or someone
who has never heard about azimuth the sound of 88 D was
superior. So I sold the 88 with assumption that my friend Axel
Schurholz will easily get the stylus perpendicular because of
the (further) assumption that all cantilevers ''must'' be glued in
the so called ''joint pipe''. Both assumptions were based on
''wishful thinking''. This was the very tragic situation with my 88D.
Anyway it seems that wear and tear of this diamond is not the
only problem by 88 D. I.e. also an possible retip will be problematic
because the cantilever is differently fastened in the ''joint pipe''.
Otherwise Axel would not need two years to solve this problem.
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Among the ''stupid persons'' who prefer aluminum cantilevers
I can mention Ikeda-san with his whole series FR-7 and also
his latest Ikeda 9 TT. Than Takeda san with his Miyabi Standard,
Reto Andreoli's ''Magic Diamond'' as well all Dertonarms MC's
and MM carts. Using qualifications instead of arguments is
typical characteristic of ''well educated'' people. However if
one lacks arguments than ''calling names'' is some kind of
solution or ''way out''.
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Was Mori san the first who used ''potting method'' for damping
resonances in XL series carts? When Axel cut the (plastic) body
of my XL 88 D in order to get entrance in the inside of the body
he mentioned to me some kind of ''glue'' with which the whole
body was filled. Axel was obviously not familiar with ''potting''.
If my assumption is true than this is the second innovation made
by Mori. His figure 8 coil former is well known innovation.
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Dear chakster, ''designers mentioned by Nandric are all retired or
dead''. Well Reto Andreoli just produced successor of his Magic
Diamond while our former member Dertonarm is still going
strong. Ikeda passed away this year and produced two new
carts with aluminum cantilever two(?) years ago: Ikeda 9 TT and 9TS. You should update your (carts) encyclopedia (grin).
Promoting MM kinds in order to better compare cantilevers will
not work for me.
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Parts and wholes. Our eloquent architect from Australia should
as such introduce this thread with some kind of, uh, introduction.
We all know that an building consist of ''parts'' but also that the
most look different while among them some are called ''artist''
and the other ''ordinary''.
We have also heard this confusing ''explanation'' that the
whole is ''more'' than the number of parts questioning our
''proven'' number theory. There is the aggregation method of
''putting parts'' together but also ''coalition'' or ''composition''.
Equal or similar parts can be put together as a heap and also
count like money. But ''composition'' can be best illustrated
with musical composer. Why can we hear differences between
Mozart , Bach, Wagner, etc. ? Is an musical work ''distinct
quality'' on its own? Such that we can separate one from the
other. Does this also apply for carts designers such that we
can hear differences between Ikeda and Van den Hul ,etc.?
There is also ''causal'' explanation versus reasons explanation.
The first assume some binary relation between cause ''a'' and
effect ''b'' while reasons can be more than two. Then there are
the old Aristetotelian ''essential'' and ''accidental'' properties of
objects. The ''essential'' assume a priori knowledge because
finding out what quality objects have is a function of time and
search.
So how should we deal with one single part in the ''whole''
of an cartridge construction or ''composition''?
By comparison between two ''identical carts'' with different
single part? (equal and ''identical'' are different animals)
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Dear chakster, Reto Andreoli was as obsessed with carts as you
are. At the age of 15 and speaking only German he went to
Australia determined to learn the art by the best teachers
thinkable: Garrot brothers. He become their little brother so,
actually there were 3 Garrot brothers. After their tragic dead he
returned to Switzerland and started his own company producing
all kinds of components all of them hand made by the master.
His series MC carts consist of Virus, Magic Diamond and Silver
Spirit. All made only on order. If one need to ask for the price
such a person is not suitable as his customer.
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Dear Australian, I have seen that YOUR post is removed but not
my. The case is my double nationality. Which one should be
removed?
@bdp24 , ''Of course they (cantileverless kinds) have other
failings''. You obviously never try Ikeda's 9 series of those
''kinds''.
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@uberwaltz, I had no idea that you are ''English English'' because
of your name. ''Sounds'' German to me.
BTW this ''off topic'' discussion ls more interesting to me than about
cantilevers.
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It must be an ''American thing'' that some of them are not able
to ''grasp'' what teasing means.
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@clearthink, If you were able to think clear you would add to
your own qualifications ''according to me'' or ''according to
my opinion''. ''x is P'' is the logical representation of the
used sentence form. I.E, ascribing properties to objects. But
you have no right to use your subjective opinion as some
objective characteristic. The objects may miss properties
ascribed to them . Such sentences are than considered as
not true.
All the involved (''racist'') persons are old members in this
forum. Sometime they tease each other. Lew started the
teasing by suggesting that Australian is not an English
language. I added some more predicates but in good fate.
We of course don't need to have the same sens for humor.
The Dutch , for example, deny any sense for humor to the
Germans. This is however not true because I know one
German ''Witz''.
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@uberwalzt, Thanks to your extended knowledge of English variations your description ''it is light hearted banter'' is more adequate than my ''teasing''.
BTW as Halcro predicted my post is removed . Probably because
of naming one resident of Mexico ''Mexican''.
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If I remember well ''Grgaudio'' (?) who made this long list with
carts + his own valuation mentioned his XL 88D as retiped.
In my sample the cantilever was not round nor the (aluminum)
joint pipe behind. I deed not ask Axel to retip my sample but
to straighten the stylus. The usual procedure is to dissolve the
glue , remove the old cantilever and glue the new one instead.
That is why the ''standard'' retip with cantilever/stylus combo
looks so easy (considering the price) . Anyway if an retip is
possible this will also be ''big relive'' for our Aussie .
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The ''joint pipe'' behind the cantilever also carry coils and tension
wire. Together they are the moving parts by any MC cart.
Damping is behind coils . On the generator. So the cantilever must be somehow fastened in the joint pipe. Usually the cantilever is glued in the (joint) pipe. I also assumed that Sony XL series are ''irreparable carts''. But because of their closed (glued) plastic
bodies. However ''Grgaudio'' stated that his 88D is re-tipped.
That is why I made an hypothetical statement about re-tip
possibility. I still own 88D ''in parts'' but am no able to see how
the diamond is fastened in the join pipe. Well that joint pipe is
longer than diamond cantilever.
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Totally different than ''don't mention M name'' I re-tipped only
one of my MM carts. The other guy posted all his MM carts
for ''refreshment'' regardless of their need. I noticed that
re-tip by MM carts is done by cutting the original cantilever
and gluing new cantilever/stylus combo in or on the original
''rest pipe''. By ''per analogy'' reasoning one can ''imagine''
cutting the ''joint pipe'' by XL 88 D behind the diamond and
gluing new cantilever/stylus combo instead. The length of
the (aluminum) joint pipe is such that one can cut twice (grin).
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If my deduction from ''per analogy'' assumption reg. retip by
MM kinds by which the original cantilever is cut and the new
one glued IN or ON the remainder of the original can also
by done by the precious 88D then , by way of comfort, the
owner would get two 88 kinds without D but twice as many.
Anyway the length of the ''joint pipe'' by 88 D is such that
such proposition looks possible. There is btw also this
''second best'' assumption...
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The ''other model'' was with integrated headshell. This one looks
much nicer than ''regular''. Halcro can ask Thuchan for the picture.
I am sure that Thuchan owns one.
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My problem is that I like both; Dover and Chakster So my way
out is to state that both are right. |
Addendum. I am familiar whith the ''whole story'' about Andreoli.
I have even read his ''thoretical work'' in German. But I deed not
''grasp'' his preference for aluminum cantilever not to mention
his preference for spherical styli. So when i heard that he uses
new kind of cantilevers and styli I posted my Magic diamond to
Expert stylus in order to ''improve '' my Magic. The new sapphire
cantilever + ''ultra low mass Paratrace stylus''. Cost me 400 GBP.
And the result is? Nobody want to buy my Magic because it
is ''retiped''. Tanks chakster (grin). |
mijostyn, are you shure you want an duel with an Serbian
warrior? We, my dear mijostyn , don't need any reason
to start an war. Pure passion.
The problem in our forum is the grammar. To be more
specific the simple ''subject (is) predikat'' form. One is
so focussed on subject and what ''it'' possible refer to that
by all those guessing about cantievers each of you forget
to mention my Ikeda Rex which has no cantiever whatever.
Typical example of western jealousy and illusion to be the
smartest in the world. |
Parts, wholes and language. Putting together similar things is
called ''aggregation'' while putting together different things
is called ''coalition'' or composition. Whomever invested his money
in different assets made an composition of them. ''Curiously''
musical works are not only called ''compositions'' but also
''art''. Do we call mathematics ''art'' or ''science''? Confronted with,
say, many variables they invented ''formulae'' to deal with them.
Those can't be expressed in ordinary language. Why? Because
of limitation to ''x is P'' sentence form. There are obvious limitations
to what one can say in this sentence form . More in particular relations which we try to express by parts and wholes. Frege proposed to threat relations as functions with 2 or more ''arguments''. But we are not able to handle sentences with many
''subjects'' as ''x is P'' demonstrate. All our ''threads'' are about
''some subject'' such that members should limit their contributions
to the ''subject in casu''. Why is ''devition form the subject matter''
called ''deviation?
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It may look like Nandric philosophical exercise but it is about
parts , wholes and langugage we use to describe their
''connections''. The part in casu is cantilever. There are comparisons
expressed as ''better than relation'' : a > b> c >...n. But whatever
the properties of whatever cantilever it is the whole of the
cartridge that determine its ,say, ''value''. By MC kinds one can
state that all are ''composed of the same parts''. The parts are
produced by different companies while all producers and repair
services use the same cantilever/stylus combo. That is to say
that nobody produce his own cantilever/stylus combo. So one
can state putting together al (same) parts is the whole story.
However we recognize that, say, Ikeda, Takeda, Van den Hul,
Allearts , Lukatschek and Mori ''adds'' something of their own to
the ''whole cart''. They ''tune'', ''listen'' and try to improve the sound
of their carts in , say, ''some special way''. This we can name
''the art of the master''. So the question ''who made the cart''
become one of the criterions to judge.
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Why is the ''argument'' put in the context of ''what things have in
common''? Is this Aristotelian ''esence of things'' or some other
''lose criterion''? All people have in common the ''property'' (?)
of being human . But what is the scientific value of such
generalisations? To formulate any ''general statement'' one needs
(universal) quantifiers like ''all'', ''some'', etc. But those are not
names with referential function, The so called ''numerical quantifier''
explain the difference : there are exactly 10000000 immigrants
in Germany. European commission declared that ''each fugitive
has the right to asylum procedure''. But ''each'' does not say
how many those are while each European country is only willing
to allow limited number of immigrants. Seeing from immigrants
side each of them want to reach European borders without any
chance for asylum. They then walke to the North with Germany
or UK as destination. But the actual sitution is that each European
country has the problem with illegal immigrants. Caused by the fact
that European commission has no idea what ''all'' means.
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