Who knows what "groove guard" is?

Kinsekd- A number of table manufacturers (some expensive ones!)purposely make their platters slightly concave in order to minimize record warps. The amount of this "dish" is somwhat more than the amount of "dish" that would be created by the additional thickness of a groove guard on a full 12" platter. I am not an engineer and don't pretend to know (or thought) much about it, but it would seem unlikely that these manufacturers would go to the expense of making a concave surface only to degrade the sound. Therefore, I would have to assume that a very slightly concave surface has nearly zero negative effect on playing a record. Perhaps a carefully set anti-skate would offset the stylus wanting to go "downhill"?

I always felt that the groove guard helped to guide the stylus onto the first track or at least keep the stylus from skating off the album when it (the stylus) was placed near the outer edge...

Regards
Jim

Kinsekd, thanks. The Linn platters also already take into account the added thickness of groove guard by using a smaller-than-12" platter.

I don't, for a minute, assume that your new non-groove guard records don't sound better. I am sure they do. I am just trying to understand why. The playing surfaces should already be flat with Linn platters with or without gg. Oh, well, life's mysteries make it interesting.

Kalan,

TT is a Linn LP12 with Ekos/Arkiv/Lingo/Cirkus. Electronics are Audio Research PH3 SE/LS 25 Mk 2/VT100 mk 3 with Magnepan speakers. Interconnects are Litzlink for the most part.

I don't pretend to be a physicist, but it seems to me that any lp that presents more of a "flat" as opposed to a "convex" surface (as one without a groove glide should) will make it easier for the stylus to follow the groove and reduce skating forces. I don't know if that's what I heard or not. It just seemed a tad more "real" to me.

Thank you all. Yes, Albert's explanation is correct. Other analogue folk (not on this thread) have also confirmed it.

All TT platters I have ever seen are slightly smaller than 12" to allow the groove guard lip to over hang; thus, the playing surface can lay flat and "couple" with the platter more effectively. As I recall, even inexpensive TT's have smaller-than-12" platters--or a beveled one to account for the increased thickness of the g-guard at the disc's outer edge. Maybe the platters on record changers were the full 12" so that the GG could be used as GG was intended.

The record disc contact with the platter has already been pretty good on every TT I have had: Thorens TD-316, SOTA Sapphire, and VPI TNT 3.5. Has anyone found a non-record changer TT withOUT a platter that mitigates groove guard?

I wonder if the added bead of vinyl around the outside edge of the record increases the likelihood that some sort of resonance can propagate.(?) Doesn't the added thickness around the outer edge also serve to somewhat protect the playing surface from other interference such as the sleeve as one takes the record out or put back in?

Kinsekt, does your TT platter already allow for the GG either by its smaller circumference or a beveled edge? If it does not, I can understand how a non-groove guard record would sound better. Otherwise, I am baffled. I don't doubt that the non-groove guard records sound better. It would be nice to know on what kind of platters we're talking about here….

For a point of info, the Teres turntable also has a platter which is bevelled at the edge to allow records with Groove Guard to lie flat.

Albertporter you are right. I recently bought a couple of lp's without the groove guard. What it does is to allow them to lay perfectly flat and provide a more stable surface for the stylus. I was very pleased with what I heard.

I am not even certain that I am right. The concept of removing what is no longer needed to improve modern reproduction is just a guess on my part, knowing the dedication of the folks at Classic Records.

Thank you, Albert. Your explanation is a good one. Do you think the phrase (and concept) 'groove guard' is common knowledge among vinyl folks?

I suspect (but not positive) that this refers to the raised lip on the outermost edge of most LP.

In the early days when LP's were dropped on top of one another by record changer turntables, the lip provided a much needed space that prevented the grooves from touching. This was necessary to allow the freshly added LP on top of the stack protection while gaining momentum from a dead stop when dropped.

If they have done away with this, the LP will sit more perfectly flat on most turntables, although some such as the Walker have the platter turned just enough undersize to remove this problem on all existing LP's.