Which tonearm for vintage Micro Seiki BL-91

thanks for your response I read somewhere that the MA-505 would have a slightly more narrow soundstage than its competitors of that period? what was your experience with it and how does teh VPI JMW-12 compare to the Micro Seiki.

FastMick thanks for your input. FR-64s has lots of raving comments but very expensive on the second hand market

Bpoletti
Br3098
thanks for your explanation
I thought the BL-91 with its wooden plinth woodn't be that resonant or at least less then other designs.
Any idea how to dampen that resonance: Changing the feet? Use the heavy cupper platter (8kg) instead of the aluminium platter?
Anyway the reason why I'm asking about comparison with modern arms is because I like the vintage designs and especially the Micro Seiki MA-505.. but musical sound is more inmportant than the looks and the specs on paper.
A friend of mine is offering it to me for the equivalent of 300 USD but we saw that when turning the antiskating knob completely back : i.e antiskating "off" the wire that is connecting the knobs with the internal spring is a bit lose. How do we know that this antiskating is still in working condition. On a "blanc" Lp with teh antiskating completely turned in the the tonearm keeps on turning towards the spindle as if there no antiskating wokring on it. VTF for my Miyajima Shilabe (weight 11,2 with original mounting screws,compliance 10x..)is set at 3.0gr (a
Any experience with MA-505 antiskating problems.
Last wek I could audition a Kuzma 4 point with a Shilabe on a VPI (but don't remember the type) at the local store but the price is 11 times the price of the MA-505 even it is a demo unit. Of course I was impressed but it was not on my system
Thanks in advance

Bpoletti,
thanks for the explanation I will have a look at the vinyl engine with my friend.
Br3098, don't worry I didn't misunderstand your comment at all. I realy appreciate your and BPoletti's input on this. I do realize that this is an old design, which is one of the reasons why I like it. The turntable arrived yesterday evening and it looks very good almost no damages. I will need to clean it but that is part of the enjoyment, isn't it. Both 33 and 45 speed are stable. No play on the spindle which was my biggest concern.
This evening after reading about the antiskating on Vinylengine we will try my friends MA-505 which is a MK1.
The reason for the low price is because he prefers selling it to me, as a friend, rather than listing it for sale out also we don't know how are the bearings etc.
With my BL-51 I removed the original spring loaded plastic feet that are fixed to the plinth with a simple screw, and coupled it to a 4cm thick japanese maple slab as big as the turntable, with 3 vintage (again) Harmonix MY-T TU-210 feet (without using their metal base). The Maple slab is resting on 4 square pieces of very heavy slate that are each supported by Vibrapods level 4. Probably this reads and even looks a bit strange but not having a decent audiorack (just a handmade pinewood bookshelve) This selfmade damping/insulation was the best we could hear for the money ( I only paid the second hand Vibrapods that I bougth at HiFi-do here in Japan). I will certainly try the same setup with the BL-91 but haven't tried yet to remove the original plastic feet.
thanks again to both of you

Last evening we installed the MA-505. We used the tonearms mounting templates and a Feickert protractor. So far we have been listening to my Miyajima Shilabe with a Yamamoto ebony headshell. In comparison with the the BL-51 static balance tonearm this is an improvement in clearity and bass. Most probably this is not only the tonearm but also the Turntable itself which is a step up in the Micro Seiki BL-series. The BL-51 must have been already dark because we can hear a significant improvement in detail and clearity while the bass is also deeper much deeper. Soundstage is a bit wider but can be better I think. I haven't tried my Micro Benz Ruby 2 yet. That will be for tomorrow. The tonearm cable is an old Micro Seiki but time and smoke have erased its typename. Would like to know how a recent tonearm would sound on a BL-91. Anyone?
Thanks

someone else with experience comparing newer designs with MA-505 .. if possible on Micro Seiki BL series?
thanks in advance
Tony

Michael
thanks for your comparison between FR-64s and Grace.
I have a phonostage which has a good SUT. I'm keeping my system as it was excepted the turntable and the tonearm. Just want to know how newer tonearms like MOerch UP-4,DP-6, SME IV or V,Reed, etc perform in comparison with the older designs together with my Miyajima Shilabe.

First of all I wish you all a Happy New Year.
I finally went for the Moerch UP-4 in 9". Its mounting distance is 1 cm shorter than the MA-505. I received it last week but need another tonearm base that I will make myself. The MicroSeiki MA-505 had to go because it is not mine. I didn't buy it myself because I wanted a brand new tonearm. Looking forward to listen to this Danish Beauty.
No VTA on the fly though so a bit worried about that.
Tony

Thanks for your comment I think I agree with you. Once my system wil be "finished" I will enjoy this for a while. But I want to compare new designs wiht older ones that is why I bought a second hand Saec WE-308L with stabilizing weight and bracket for plinth mount. All this for a very reasonable price. I'm expecting it this week. I will try to compare with the new Moerch UP-4 and decide later.
Enjoy the music

Funkhawk
thanks for the input. I've been reading very positive comments here on audiogon about STAX, Grace, SAEC FR64s etc
Only thing is that FR is realy very expensive at this moment, STAX is more accessible and Grace is hard to find.
Michael
Yes I had a Uesugi bro-5 and liked it with my Luxman LMC-1 cartrdige and even with an old Denon dl-55 but was rather soft and detailed. I lided it with Classical music Violin Cello etc but for Jazz and rock it was too smooth in my system. I replaced it with a Cinemag from Bob's Devices and found that an amazing dynamic/punch improvement in comparison with the Uesugi.
So far I like the SAEC WE-308L most on my BL-91. Micro seiki was not bad but too light for my Miyajima Shilabe: The Saec is has a bit more detail, better instrument positioning and most important for me sounds more "LIVE" than the MA-505, and Morch that I had the chance to try on this BL-91. I am cleanig it thouroughly now. Some people have reomended me the SAEC WE407/23 but it is too expensive. Other people like Miyajima-san himself for example recomended me the WE-308L some weeks ago. He is using this arm himself in his listening room on a Garard 301 that he has restored completely. I could buy one for a very reseanable price with SA-500E stabilizer (that I'm not using) and SAEC S1 bracket.
If I find a reasonable priced WE-407, STAX U9 or Grace I will certainly try them. AT this moment I'm in my "trial episode" :-)
Enjoy the music.

Hello
it has been a while... very busy with photography here
So far I have been able to compare on my Micro Seiki BL-91 :
Saec WE-308L (which I restaured myself) with Micro Seiki MA-505 1st version (sold) and Moerch UP-4 (new).
They all received a Miyajima Shilabe as this is my favourite cartridge.
As commented by BPoleti and Br3098 the MA-505 gives more musical sound. The WE-308L outstands in immediacy and punch. The difference is very clear here. For us it is a matter of taste but also it depends on the kind of music. They both sound great. As to the Moerch. It sounds more "normal" nothing special but has good tight and deep bass and is good all rounder but again without drawing the attention to the music. I may say it is very neutral or maybe a bit flat. When we listen to the other two arms our attention goes to the music as if we where at a live performance but each in a different way.
Trying to get my hands on a Lustre GST 801 or a Fidelity research FR64 .
I sold the MA 505 because I had a bad experience with the seller (an ebay seller from Hongkong ) ... and wanted to get rid of the bad experience.
I will decide after trying out the FR and the Lustre if I will buy another MA-505
At this moment the Moerch will go and the SAEC can stay.
Enjoy the music

Pryso
thanks... I know about the drooping end stub. My previous MA-505 had that problem but me too I thought this was normal. A Denon tonearm that came with the turntable had the same problem so I thought it was the design:-)
Now you are telling me, I realize that I sold it as it was and the buyer didn't ask me anything about that. Terribly sorry!!!!

By the way I have seen that you are quite popular here on Audiogon and you are very active here. Can I ask you one more question.
I love my Micro Seiki BL-91. It sounds much better, punchier, dynamic deeper bass and everything than my previous BL-51 ( with a fixed static balanced tonearm that was sold as a set here in Japan during its commercialization years).
I have been reading posts about "plinthless" versus "plinthed" turntables. Lots of new desings like Clearaudio still have both in their catalogue.
Can I assume that this is a matter of taste? I remember another very popular member "Raul" saying that he has changed his mind about Micro Seiki and plinths. Or is as you stated the combination of the tonearm and the cartridge more important once you have the plinth isolated. and the vibration reduced as well as one can or thinks he can.
I cannot compare, very simply because I don't have the money for new high-end turntables. That is why I ask you ....experienced audiophiles.
Thanks a lot
enjoy the music

Thank you Pryso, and all of you who have been sharing their experience and knowledge. I guess the only way is trying and spending money ;-)
More opinions welcome of course