Which SUT to match Koetsu Rosewood Standard in my system?


Howdy everyone,

I’m about to move to to my first MC cartridge, and I’d be grateful for your advice in choosing a step-up transformer. First, here’s my current system:

  • Table: Thorens TD-124 (mk I, with a few upgrades from Hanze HiFi)
  • Arm: Ortofon TA-110
  • Cartridge: AT-540ML
  • Amp: Audio Note Soro Phono SE Signature
  • Phono stage: Built-in MC phono preamp in the Audio Note Soro
  • Speakers: Klipsch Forte IV
  • Interconnects: Ortofon 6NX-TSW-1010L (came with the tone arm)
  • Speaker cables: 14 gauge Audio Note bulk wire (planning to upgrade this at some point, but not until I finalize the analog front end)
  • Room: I live in a city townhouse, so my listening room isn’t huge—about 15 feet long by 12 feet wide. It has been sound treated a bit: absorption at the first reflection points, front corners, and on the ceiling slightly in front of the listening position, and diffusion + absorption along the back wall.

It seems to me that the clear mismatch now is the cartridge, and after auditioning several contenders, I’ve settled on the Koetsu Rosewood Standard. At least in my system and to me ears, it gives me the most of what I want: a rich, organic, natural sound. When I auditioned it, the dealer lent me an Audio Note AN-S8 SUT. A fantastic piece of gear, but well above my budget at this stage.

So I need some help choosing an SUT. Here are a few priorities:

  • Maximizing the natural, organic sound of the Koetsu and amplifier, which seems to balance so well with my speakers—retaining the dynamism and drive of high-efficiency horns while taming stridency that sometimes also comes along, especially in my relatively small space.
  • Favor emotional impact over technical accuracy: “good” distortion can be fine with me.
  • That said, minimize noise. I rent a city townhouse, so there’s old wiring that I can do only so much to fix, and a healthy bit of RF noise. My turntable, while about as quiet as an idler wheel can be, isn’t as quiet as the best designs of today. My amp is great, but also not silent. And at 99 db sensitivity, those horns pick up everything. So it’s important that the SUT be well shielded from RF noise and have an effective grounding scheme.
  • Favor an ideal match with cartridge, amp, speakers, etc. rather than future flexibility. I don’t mind swapping the SUT out for something else if I decide to change cartridges sometime in the future. I prefer optimizing it to what I have now, not what I might have
  • A 1:8 step up ratio, if possible. The cartridge is 0.4mv; the amp’s phono input is 3mv. 
  • Budget: $3k or less, ideally 

I really look forward to your thoughts. Please don’t hesitate to ask for any other info that might be helpful. Thank you!

zazu22

Showing 8 responses by zazu22

Thanks, @cleeds. So how does that cash out for my situation? Should I then be aiming for something around a 1:10 step up for a 0.3-0.4mv cartridge?

I don’t think that Audio Note publishes that spec. I could be mistaken, but here’s the manual: https://www.audionote.co.uk/_files/ugd/89c24f_e3f648926d024a13b9846ae2269296f9.pdf. See page 9. Is there a way to test for that? Or calculate it from the specs they do provide? Based on specs for some of their comparable standalone phono stages, it appears that it could be anywhere from about 36 db to 56 db.

As for the cartridge, output voltage is 0.4mv. Koetsu is also a bit stingy with specs, and doesn’t publish internal impedance (so far as I can tell). But other sources say it’s 5 Ohms. 

Thanks for all of the advice so far. I’ll reach out to Audio Note to see if they’ll provide that info.

One other piece of potentially relevant info: I do have the Hegel V10. Would it be useful to play around with gain and capacitance settings on that first, and see what works best? I just wasn’t sure if the combination that might sound best on the Hegel would necessarily translate to what would sound best on an SUT. 

@lewm on the question you asked: 

Other important variables and unknowns include linestage gain and amplifier input sensitivity and speaker efficiency. 

The Audio Note manual says that line level input efficiency is 300mv, and line level input impedance is 100 Ohm. I’ll report back on gain.

As for speaker efficiency, it’s 99 dB. Thanks. 

I do like the Hegel overall, but it’s almost too “clean” and precise, if that makes sense. It does something to the signal that, at least to my ears, takes away some of the warmth and magic of the 6L6s in the Soro. I suppose I could be imagining that—it’s always so hard to separate physics from psychology in this endeavor.

But the dealer who sold me the amp said that Audio Note designed its phono stage to be used with SUTs, and he thinks it really shines best with a SUT rather than an active phono stage. He actually steered me away from Audio Note SUTs for now, as he thinks there are better bargains to be had at my budget than AN’s mid-tier offerings. So I don’t think that he’s just trying to sell me another Audio Note component. 

@rauliruegas You do make a good point, raising the age-old debate of accurate reproduction vs. subjective pleasure. In my experience, having listened to some of the most accurate systems on earth, reproducing exactly what’s in the grooves doesn’t always equal subjective enjoyment—which for me is the sound of live performance.

That said, you’re quite right that the Hegel is a great unit. That’s why I bought it in the first place, after all. Fremmer’s rave review, among many others, certainly sold me on the Hegel.

It’s quite possible that the Hegel sounds “clinical” to me only in direct contrast to the Audio Note’s built-in tube phono stage. Also, I’ve only tried the Hegel with my 540ML (which is ”cooler” and more clinical than the Koetsu, at least to my ears) and only through the Audio Note’s line stage. It may be that the Koetsu + Hegel + AN phono stage combination would work quite well.

And as @elliottbnewcombjr mentions, the Hegel gives nice flexibility with independence gain and impedance control. Perhaps I can find a combination that gives me what I’m looking for, and can hold off on the SUT search. I think the wise thing would be to start there and see what I learn.

I still welcome any thoughts on the SUT in the meantime. I’m a tinkerer, and I know I’ll want to give one a try sooner or later.

Thanks to all so far for the quite helpful advice. In my short time on the forum, I can already see that this is a welcoming, productive, valuable community. 

Also, @elliottbnewcombjr thank you very much for this clarification:

Your Amp's phono specification: phono input sensitivity 3.0mv. Not Ideal, not preferred: That is the MINIMUM signal strength it needs IN to boost the signal up to line level. These amp's phono inputs also have MAXIMUM _____ mv, (before overload occurs) 

I had no idea that’s what that specification indicates. You learn something (or several things) new every day!

Thanks for all the recommendations and advice. Now to see who out here on the west coast might have some of these options to audition.