Which subwoofer?

Hello kenrus,

   




     I think mike_in_nc gave you very good advice: the key is good integration with your main speakers, a pair of subs will perform much better than a single sub (smoother, faster bass, easier to integrate and provide better bass dynamics) and it's best to buy subs that offer a free in-home trial period and full refunds if you're not satisfied. I agree with this completely.
     I also agree with mattchristian that a pair of the SVS SB-1000 sealed subs are a very good choice.  You'd need to buy a pair of these subs used, however, since SVS recently discontinued this model.  I don't know your budget and goals, but if you're looking for the best bargain, I think a used pair of the older SB-1000 subs in good condition would be your best option.           
     If you prefer to buy new with a 5 yr warranty, I'd suggest checking out a pair of the SVS SB-1000 Pro subs for $499/each, or a $50 discount if you buy 2, at $950/pair. These are a newer refreshed and updated version of the discontinued SB-1000 model at the same price.  These are also very compact (roughly a 13" cube), have a 12" woofer and have a rated bass extension down to the audible limit of 20 Hz. They offer free shipping, a free 45 day in-home trial period and a full refund if you're not completely satisfied.
     If your budget is a bit higher and your goal is state of the art bass performance that will make your room seem larger, I'd suggest you consider the Audio Kinesis Swarm or Debra 4-sub distributed bass array (DBA) system for about $3,000:
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system
     Just a few useful things for sub installation and setup I've learned through research and experience over the years:

Two subs will perform and sound about twice as good as a single sub  and four subs will perform and sound about twice as good as two subs in virtually any room.

Humans are unable to localize (discern exactly where a sound is coming from)  with bass sounds at frequencies below about 80 Hz and are progressively better at localizing sounds as their frequencies rise above about 80 Hz.

It's very important that each sub is positioned optimally in the room, and in relation to the designated listening position, for best performance. I suggest you google and use the "sub crawl" method for easiest and optimal positioning.  

Once the subs are optimally positioned in the room, the Volume, Crossover Frequency and Phase controls need to be optimally set on each of the SVS subs or once for all 4 subs, on the supplied amp/control unit, for the Audio Kinesis DBA system.

Best wishes,
Tim

Hello kenrus,

scm also offered very good advice, in my opinion for 2 reasons:

1. I believe the Hsu ULS-15 MKII is also a very good sub that may even outperform the SVS SB-1000-Pro but it's $800 plus $90 shipping and handling, which totals almost $900.  It's also larger, due to its 15" woofer, at about a 1.5 foot cube. Head to head it likely outperforms the SVS but I believe a pair of the SVS subs will significantly outperform a single Hsu sub in your room and only cost a touch over $50 more, due to the free SVS shipping.

2.  Scm mentions the idea of using 3 total subs in his room and I think this may have a good chance of working well in your room, too.  In effect, you already have a sub module attached to the bottom of each of your ML main speakers. Even though these sub modules aren't currently positioned in your room, and in relation to your listening position, for optimum bass performance since they're probably currently positioned for optimum mid/treble and imaging performance at your LP, one additional and optimally positioned sub in your room could, theoretically, significantly deepen the perceived bass in your room.  I'm thinking a single, slightly larger sub with a larger woofer (15" or more like a Hsu ULS-15 MKII or another, larger, sealed or ported SVS sub that has deep bass extension down to 20 Hz or lower) may work very well if it's optimally positioned and configured.  This should be considered an alternative option to the pair of sub option I discussed previously. 
     This works because, even though only 1 of your 3 subs would be pumping out bass below 24 Hz and down to 20 Hz or lower, you would perceive all of the bass in the room as extending down to the deepest sub's capacity.  This is explained in the field of psycho-acoustics if you care to google it and learn more about this subject and phenomenon.
     As others have mentioned on this thread, Dr. Earl Geddes, the original inventor of the 4-sub distributed bass array(DBA) concept, claims that 3 subs can sometimes perform as well as 4 subs in a room.
    Buying from SVS, or another company that offers free in-home trial periods and returns, has the added benefit of allowing you to try out either or both options without taking any financial risk.  

Tim 
       

 lewinskih01:
" @noble101
Indeed,Earl Geddes has said that subs has been enough for him, but 4 is better. It's important to note when Geddes talks about "better" bass he's referring to seat-to-seat variations across the room. So bass is more Even across the room. He isn't talking taut, 3D-like, fast or other descriptors often used for "good" bass."

Hello lewinskih01,

     I'm not certain you're claim about Geddes's meaning, when he talks about "better" bass, is correct.  Yes, one of the main benefits of his 4-sub distributed bass array (DBA) concept is very even bass distribution performance throughout the entire room with very little seat-to-seat variations across the room.  
     But another main benefit of his 4-sub DBA concept is that this very evenly distributed bass performance is also consistently perceived as very high quality bass as described by the familiar good bass audio adjectives such as taut, fast, smooth and detailed. 

     Duke LeJeune, the owner of Audio Kinesis, is still a friend and was an associate of Earl Geddes, circa 2014-15, when he told Duke about the benefits of utilizing the 4-sub Distributed Bass Array(DBA) concept he invented/discovered and gave Duke permission to use the concept as he wished and without charge. 
     Subsequently and fairly quickly, Duke introduced the AK Swarm 4-sub DBA that was reviewed very positively in 2015 by the Absolute Sound magazine.  Here's a link to that review: 

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system
   
     This is just a sample from this review praising the high quality of the Swarm's 4-sub DBA system's bass performance: " Now any addition of full-range bass gives some of this effect. But the Swarm gives more of it. Not more bass than other subs—lots of them can be turned up to give plenty. Rather, there is better bass with less signature from the listening room."
     My main point is that both of these main benefits of the 4-sub DBA concept, evenly distributed bass and high quality bass, are not subtle qualities at all.  These are both very obvious qualities that were easily perceived by both the Absolute Sound reviewer and myself as a user. 
      I seriously doubt that either Earl Geddess, as the concept's inventor/discoverer as part of his PHD thesis, or Duke LeJeune, as the concept's adopter/manufacturer, are unaware of these two main benefits nor hesitant to refer to both of these as qualifying as "better" bass qualities when discussing the concept.
     After utilizing the AK Debra 4-sub DBA system for the past decade and counting, I can also state with certainty that bass power, impact and dynamics are also other main characteristics of this concept.

fwiw,
Tim