Which is Best loudspeaker in the $1000-1200 range?
S7horton: I apologize if I offended you, any B&W owners, their family and affiliates. Over the years, I have noticed that B&W is one brand that must not be criticised. I still do not know why but I guess it has to do with the BMW thing. As far as I am concerned, I always found them overpriced and third choice at best in their price range. And whether you like it or not, I am entitled to say it. For the record, I did not use them as an industry reference (or should I in the "rip off" category?): read the OP - "upgrade", check his system - B&W- and you'll see why I referred to them. Read first, then bark - at the right tree. |
I would have used them as reference if they had not been the OP's current speaker brand. In that case, i used them in the OP's context of an upgrade. Grade 5 logic, come again. Now, I saw your system and realized that you are still mourning the forced departure of the 805 from your system. I understand the grief. I too fantasized about a girlfriend long after she dumped me. Love is blindness, I don't want to see - U2 |
Ok, enough fun, you like - sorry Love- B&W, I don't, why is it so hard for you to tolerate a different opinion? would you burn a flag for a cartoon of a B&W logo? Comments like "no one can touch their R&D" are embarrassing for you and there is much more - and less- to musicality than golf ball textured port, kevlar woofers, suspended or diamond tweeters. B&W do innovate but they are not the only brand to do so and to each his own. Innovation and true improvements are not the same, especially in audio where snake oil innovations are everywhere. I hate to hit on another of your likely fav brand but Musical Fidelity releases a new series that "kills the last one for less money" every time Stereophile truly updates their Rec' list (18-24 months). Innovation or marketing? MF, Rotel, B&W...how many airbags do you order your Camry with? I encourage you to listen to not-so-advertising-driven brands to hear that yes, indeed, you can get as good or better than a B&W for much less. Easy: satrt by picking a brand that barely advertises and that goes direct to retailers or to consumers. These are the 40+% non-quality contributing dollars you save over a B&W, ceteris paribus. Green Mountain Callisto, Tyler Taylo, Avalon Studio Pro to name 3 monitors that cost $1,000 less than a Sig 805 and that are as good or better depending on taste obviously. Open your ears (and mind), there is a world out there that TAS or Stereophile does not tell you much about! Cheers. |
I disagree: the OP learnt among other things that B&W's (and many others) pricing is made of a minimum of 40% marketing costs (distri channel + advertising). Or, how to get a $1,000 pair of speakers that sounds like a $2,500 one: stay away from the heavy mass-marketed brands and buy local brands if possible to also save on international shipping and duties (Dah!). Make it a 50% saving total then! Not bad and right on topic. What did the OP learnt from you? B&W or nothing. Brilliant! |
"Maybe that's why the cost of a pair of B&W's in the US is the same as the cost in the UK!" Agree but price differential may also come from market-specific pricing to remain competitive and adjust to the strength/weakness of their currency. In the last 2-3 years, European brands have suffered from very strong currency that almost put then out of market in some cases. It was not uncommon for them to cut down on margins eventually (all things relative though, they usually cut channel markups, not their own profits!)when selling in NorAm. That does not make their product a real value winner as they usually benchmark with other international brand prices (think B&W vs Dynaudio vs JM Lab in NorAm). The reverse is also true: Canadian brands have been privileged with a very weak currency between 2000-2003 and companies like Totem or SimAudio have raised their international prices to equal or about nominal value (Arros sold for about $1,100 CAD in Canada and $1,100 euros in Europe, a 200% difference!...SimAudio W5 sold for about 4,500 CAD, euros or USD). Think about the channel margin paid by your cousin in Italy on a pair of Arros at close to $2,500 CAD at the time!!!!! Figueiredops, at the end, the true economics of buying local and as direct as possible makes sense in terms of value, at purchase and during the course of ownership(if and when the offering makes it possible). At one point, I had to have my Totem and SimAudio gear checked and was happy to have both manufacturers at driving distance or at least domestic, easier, cheaper, faster than when I had to have my Unison Research checked (they had to order a part from Italy!). I am far from saying one should only buy domestic or basement brands but if the market permits, this is a good idea in order to get closer to the $1,000 item that sounds like the $2,500 (although this sentence makes little sense in the context of today's diverse supply of sometimes questionable quality). The internet has allowed little known domestic one-owner brands to get as much exposure as the large one spending $$$ in print media. 20yrs ago, it would have been hard for Tyler Acoustics to get the level of awareness in the audio community if they had had to rely on small printed columns at the end of TAS. Today, tks to Agon and other audio sites, Tyler products get the same level of exposure as a B&W. Anyone should AB a N703 and a Taylo 7U to see what value means. Note: I am not affiliated with Tyler at all, never owned any of their products but always been impressed at shows or friends. |
Brian: you are right, these were estimates only, I may be underestimating the figure by another 10% or so as I have bought three European speaker sets at 40% discounts directly from their NorAm distributors (not end of the line). I guess they covered landing acquisition price and some holding costs. The channel mark-up, advertising contribution and supply chain costs on your 802D may be over $6,000 in fact. Did anyone ever compare a 802D at $12k and a Tyler Taylo Ref3 at $4,600? at that price point, value is not necessarily what people look for, they want the best sound so this is somehow irrelevant to the OP yet I would be curious to know the answer. But at $1,000, better run out of direct then domestic then 100% Chinese options before buying heavily channeled European(ized) brands. I made the same mistakes myself when I got started. |
James, another pissed off BMW owner who does not tolerate criticism? Proving my point a bit more that it is a religion more than a mass audio brand? as far as my knowledge of audio gear pricing and markups, PM me for a free tutorial, this could save you some cash on your next purchase of the BMW Lunar Stone Dust coated tweeter that extends over 100kHz for the exclusive pleasure of dolphins and belugas(coming as soon as someone else mass produces diamond tweeters see below: http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/diamond-tweeter/index.php |
