Which Harbeths?

Conlad thank, and can you elaborate a bit. Specifically on the musical engagement and midrange between the two. 

I am glad to hear some feedback but I think I’m more confused. Would be great to go demo both but I’m not buying new and it just seems rude. Plus it’s a four hour drive. Plus it will be in a whole different room, different everything. 30.2s are better looking and smaller visually both perks which might win out I guess. Really I just want the the one that sounds more realistic, natural, magical, special, and I think I can live with whatever other pros and cons come with it. The question is which speaker is that???

Thanks everyone for all the input. I decided to order a pair of demo C7es3 xd in cherry. They are scheduled to arrive Monday. I’m pretty excited to finally hear what all the fuss is about. Wish I could have auditioned both but I think I made the right decision. It seems about 20-25% of people who have listened to both prefer the C7. I have a feeling I fall into this category. The thing that turns me off about the M30s is I keep reading words like refined. While this seems like it would be a good thing I find I generally don’t enjoy equipment described this way. I recently tried replacing a solid state McIntosh preamp with a tube  McIntosh C2500 preamp.  I came across much of the same when reading reviews on the tube preamp. Lots of descriptors such as refined.  I ended up really just not enjoying it very much. While in many ways the improvements were very noticeable overall I just felt it lacked excitement and engagement.  I’ve got the impression the M30s might be similar. The C7s on the other hand I continually read comments that fall in line with my preferences.

Anyways thanks again everyone and I will report back after I get them set up a chance to listen. 

So I’ve had the C7es3 xd in my system for a week now. I must say so far I am both very impressed and a bit underwhelmed.  I’ve swapped back and forth with them and my Totem Rainmakers many times trying to determine which I like more. They turn out to be more similar than different to me. The Totems have an airier presentation, and the Harbeths a heftier bottom end. Through the midrange I find them extremely similar. I found this a bit disappointing from Harbeth do to the crazy amount of praise they get for their midrange. While it is very good, I don’t find it better than the Totems despite the huge difference in price. I will be keeping the Harbeths at least for now mostly because they play considerably louder without strain. I’m also trying to give my ears time to adjust to the sound.  If I still feel the same after a couple months I’ll probably sell the Harbeths. I honestly can’t say one is really better than the other.  But the Totems are much cheaper, and cosmetically much smaller and living room friendly.  I do highly recommend people who aren’t familiar with the Totems should give them a serious listen. Just recently I tried the Dynaudio special 40s as well, and I slightly preferred the Torems. I don’t know if it is there cosmetics or just brand image but Totem is ridiculously underrated these days.   Also I have to say that anyone who listen to Harbeth with the grills on is missing out. The only thing I could do when listening at first with the grills on was laugh at how miserable and muffled they sounded. Truly very underwhelming with the grills on. Maybe good for falling asleep due to boredom. Anyways just thought I would share my initial impressions. 

I’ll definitely give them a couple months at least and see what I think after adjusting to there sound.  I’m open to keeping them but I’m also open to selling them and putting my totems back. I’m not really after something that is maybe slightly better. I decided to try some new speakers thinking my 500$ used rainmakers could be the weak link in the system. I’ve found that’s simply not the case at all.  If I keep the Harbeths it will probably be for the ability to play louder. If I keep the totems it will be for their purity. And just to be clear I do find the Harbeths sound to be beautiful, just not to the extent that the reviews and there reputation led me to expect.  Also any notion that they offer good price to performance is a bit crazy. I honestly feel if any other company tried selling the same speakers at the same prices they would be out of business.  

I don’t think I’m really willing to play around with other amplifiers right now.  I’m really trying to find a pair of speakers that are clearly superior to what I have. Not just a bit better here and a bit worse there sort of thing. I’m realizing pretty fast that probably doesn’t exist, at least in my budget.  The Harbeths are great speakers and I much prefer them to most of what I’ve heard. I’ll keep listening but I don’t think I can justify the 2,000$ over the Totems.  I really think it’s easy to get the idea that if you keep throwing money at your system that it gets better and better. This hasn’t been my findings at all. I think the point of diminishing returns kicks in very hard around 1,000$, or even less when talking used. I am really starting to get fed up with reviewers and others who make it sound like things are much better than they are, or that whatever new product is some sort of revelation. I honestly believe after a good amount of listening that Harbeths midrange is no better that my little Totem Rainmakers.

ATC along with Proac are at the top of my to try next list. Thinking about maybe the ATC scm11 instead of the 19 because I’ve read it’s a bit warmer. Although I don’t necessarily want to give up clarity for warmth. I really want warmth and clarity, and I don’t mean bright when I say clarity. When I say clarity I’m talking about a clean, smooth, and lacking distortion or any sign of crossover between the drivers.

 This is the place I find the Harbeths a little lacking perhaps. It seams almost that the crossover is one that slightly smears things in an attempt for smoothness. Which I would say it succeeds, it is very very smooth, but it doesn’t sound clean to me. I know many will say what I’m hearing is the difference between my bright Totems and the non bright Harbeths.  I feel confident that isn’t the case though. My C46 preamp has a eight band equalizer that allows me to play with frequency response considerably. I have turned down all treble on the Totems and I still get a cleaner clearer sound through them. As well, I try the opposite and turn up the treble on the Harbeths and again the Totems sound cleaner. I truly believe that Harbeth has a bit of veiling sound going on. This may or may not be due to the crossover, I’m simply speculating it may. 

So feeling a bit stupid. I had only tried the Harbeths with them connected to the 4ohm taps on my McIntosh mc302. Swapped them to the 8ohm taps yesterday evening and a whole different speaker came to life. It’s different enough that I’m still taking it in, but almost a total 180. They went from borderline overly relaxed to almost a bit to energetic. The boogie factor is on a whole other level. The lack of clarity is more than gone. The bass is stronger and faster. They do seem almost a little aggressive even compared to the Totems.  Not per say bright but a little forward.  Part of this will be remedied when I swap out my dac. I’ve used a Musical Fidelity v90 dac for a while due to its smooth glare free sound. It recently went kaput, and I swapped in a Cambridge stream magic 6 to pull dac duties. The Cambridge is considerably bright and matter of fact. When I get the chance to replace it I think I’ll easily be able to tame the aggressiveness.  Overall they are very, very good now. I haven’t swapped back to the Totems yet to compare, but I have yet to be compelled to which was not the case before. I expect that the Totems will actually sound a little laid back in comparison now.  

I apologize for my criticisms, like I said feel a bit silly now. While they still might not be the best bang for your buck there price is very justified. My only supprise now is just how exciting and energetic they are now. Not sure how much of this is due to the XD update, but it’s overall very satisfying. My feet are moving and I’m singing along like a fool.  Which is what I’m in this hobby for. Again sorry for my inaccurate opinions. Still trying to understand how going from the 4ohm taps to the 8ohm taps did what it did to the extent that it did. I think I’m understanding that it increases the power to a 6ohm speaker compared to the 4ohm taps. This still doesn’t explain everything I’m hearing but some. Either way phew, what a difference.