Mapman, when I bought my used Technics over 5 years ago, I replaced all the transistors, with the same one's it had originally, and replaced all the capacitors with "Black Gates". That was after I discovered it was easy to work on.
Now, I can record a CD, and get similar detail as you would from an LP on playback. This is analogous to a mechanic making a "hot rod" go faster than a new car; since I know this can't be done (according to audiophiles) I don't expect anyone to believe it.
happy listening.
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I hate to bust everybody's bubble, but it has been said that the truth shall set you free, and I come to this forum with a bit of truth, that contradicts a few other truths.
I was just listening to some music from a compilation of the 100 best jazz tunes of the 50's, and I discovered something; while I have most of these tunes on their original record albums, these CD's sound better. Now I'm not talking about any old rig, but a topflight high end "tweaked to the bone rig". These CD's sound better than the original records.
You be the judge as to what this pertains to the future. It has already been ascertained that R to R can sound better than the world's best record spinner. You can verify that information on the "Reel to Reel" thread.
Enjoy the music.
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The question was "What's the point of diminishing returns"? And then he mentions 25K; well it's long before you get to 25K for people with the bucks, who can see down the road. If the question had been what's the ultimate rig, that would have been a horse of a different color.
I think there are a lot of good responses as far as a top flight simple rig is concerned; the SME-20 was a good example.
When the OP went from his original question to 25K, that changed everything, because that's way past "diminishing returns" and that is what everybody is telling him, but if he's got 25K to blow, let the good times roll.
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Rushton, I was doing something unrelated to music or stereo, and it hit me, "Rushton said 25K was not the point of diminishing returns for him". What is the point where he feels comfortable, since 25K isn't even close.
could you give me an idea of what tone arm, cartridge, and TT you feel comfortable with?
I listened to a 100% top of the line ARC reference system that had been set up by the masters in a "High End Salon", and I heard things I had never heard before on a "Santana" CD. "Abraxas" was the name of the CD, and I wore out a few copies of the LP, so I was quite familiar with it; I'm wondering just how much more could I have heard on the LP?
Usually I end with "Enjoy the music", but if I had a megabuck analog rig, I would be so focused on the rig, that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the music. Do you focus on the rig, or the music?
I'm sure in selecting individual items for an analog rig, you don't say, "Give me dis dat and the other thing" (an attempt at humor) How do you select these world class components? Do you fly to Zurich to audition a tone arm or TT, or do they send you several for your inspection?
Enjoy the music.
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Rushton, you stated that 25K would not be your point of diminishing returns, and neither would it be for the OP. Now I'm just sitting here with my buttered popcorn waiting for some examples of the kind of rig someone would chose, when 25K did not approach that point the OP spoke of. Maybe if 25K did not approach that point of diminishing returns, then possibly one of these turntables would be suitable; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfIUh0S7yTQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2QfjcgDjsY Although I'm in the little league, I've always wanted to see how those in the big league play the game. Enjoy the music. |
Rushton, mmporsche, did not state that 25K would be the point of diminishing returns, he said he had a budget of 25K.
You stated that 25K would not be your point of diminishing returns, and included the OP. I have always wondered what would be suitable for someone who does not consider 25K as the point of diminishing returns, and I'm still waiting.
I realize you wouldn't want to announce to the world that you had a 150K turntable in your listening room, so I'm just asking what do you consider "suitable"?
Enjoy the music.
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Rushton, I'm sure I've seen that one in "Stereophile". Since I've got a good movie on pause, I'll complete my post later on. I was just about to throw the towel in on you.
As far as I'm concerned you probably can't get any better.
Talk back atcha in a while
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Rushton, you didn't disappoint; no matter what the rest of the rig consists of, the source is the King. I've never heard anything in that ballpark, not even in the high end salons.
I'm sure that table is in one of the Stereophile issues, I'll find it tomorrow.
May you and your wife ride on sonic clouds of bliss till the end of time.
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mmporsche, Forums become quickly side tracked in addition to being littered with opinions of individuals who obviously have never owned nor heard any similarly priced analog setup.
This thread has already become littered with too many "Ferrari250's". |
Apparently the analog forum has become a status forum as opposed to what is stated. Notice the statements made by expensive sports cars.
This might be a reflection of this society; not only do we worship wealth, but those with wealth expected to be worshiped. That is what is stated between the lines with the veneer of analog audio.
That's not the worst, the worst is that those without out such wealth, actually worship those with it, thereby reinforcing the behavior of the "Lamborghini's"
If that sounds like it's off thread, this trolley jumped it's tracks sometime ago.
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This post is for those who are not wealthy. I bought "Speakerlab" speakers back in the day when"Bose" and "Klipschorn"" were considered the big dogs.
Klipschorn paid Speakerlab to quit selling kits that were too much like their speakers.
I bought interconnect wire by 100 foot rolls that was sold by a company that sold to TV and Radio stations. This wire was a silver and copper composite. They no longer sell that wire to individuals. I asked for the replacement wire, and I don't know why I haven't thrown what the sent me into the trash because it's no good.
Any time the poor man finds a way to get around "truly obscene high prices" they pay the guy to quit manufacturing whatever it is.
No one knows how many millions they pay those people, because it happens without any news, you just can't find whatever it is any more.
While I've mentioned things like this before, the vast majority on "Audiogon" agree with such behavior; I don't know why? Unless a person has stock in one of the companies it's of no benefit to him; it doesn't matter to those who are wealthy, but it matters a great deal to those who aren't. Fortunately I have enough of that interconnect wire to last a life time. I even had a business selling "interconnects"; that got around by word of mouth. Of course I don't have any more wire to sell for interconnects.
I look at "Sherlock Holmes" and "Hercule Poirot" a lot. I find it most interesting how the "serfs" bow and scrape before the wealthy, and how the wealthy even had someone to help them dress. That went on for ages.
Not just too long ago, the "serfs" had the highest standard of living in the USA ever in the history of mankind. That's all been lost. Now if a "Serf" has a big screen TV, he considers himself wealthy; maybe when he can no longer afford a big screen TV he will have to face reality; but that requires a brain, and TV has squashed that.
Is this "off thread"? Maybe and maybe not. If you can afford a "Lamborghini", this is most certainly off thread. If you are in the "middle class" that no longer exists because those jobs are in Asia, this post is quite pertinent.
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Lewm, you ignored the statement "Littered with opinions of those who obviously never owned or heard any similar priced setup".
"Litter" is stuff that belongs in the trash can, does it not?
"Where is the significant point of diminishing returns on hi-end turntable?"
That was the original question. No where is 100k implied, or anything approaching a "Statement of the art" rig.
It is but natural that there are many different price points that will answer the original question; even those who are "littering" the discussion.
Lewm, I don't know you at all, and I don't recall addressing you personally until now.
My statement was meant for two types of people; those who are wealthy, and expect to be worshiped, and those who wish they were wealthy, and worship those who are wealthy; which one are you?
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The first response was quite reasonable. The only difference between his and my own is I would include 2k worth of tweaks, and possibly different tone arm wire if it was feasible.
My apology in advance for being one of those who are "littering" the discussion.
I liked "Oilmanmojo's" response; Dual was one of the top line turntables for me, and I loved Sansui tuners, Bose 601 corner speaker was considered boss as well.
That was long before I stumbled into a high end salon. Rushton responded positively to his post. Me and Oilmanmojo have come along way since those happy days of Dual and Bose.
I don't know where mmporsche is now, but my statement was about the "undeniable" undercurrent in this discussion, that I implied with the "Lamborghini" post.
There is nothing I hate worse than being misunderstood, therefore I will explain my opinions explicitly.
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I like to see where people's minds are; if they are aware of other important things beside "audio". Although this is not the forum, there are very smart, highly educated people here at "Audiogon".
There is nothing wrong with being rich; J.F.K. was rich, and he made a big difference in the lives of people who were not rich. The first thing somebody is going to say is "He was a Libural". What's that? it's some word people are programmed to use when they can't think of anything else to say.
Democrat, Republican; those two words are meaningless; they are words politicians use to screw us all around. After they eradicate the people like me, and others who have the ability to think; it's game over.
Many people have blasted me when I got off base. Now I need to know if there are any who approve of getting offbase occasionally?
Enjoy the music.
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