Where can I hear Teres

I was there. San Jose with the Redpoint. Sounded okay but I was a bit unfamiliar with the DIY Bottlehead system. In fact, I think most of the positive elements I heard were more a result of the 2A3 tubes than the Redpoint turntable.

It would have been nice to listen the the Gyro vs. the Redpoint.

The Redpoint had what seemed to be an an old SME arm and an Ortofon cartridge (which was a cartridge and head shell in one). A fat ugly thing. Honestly.. I cannot say why those components (arm/cart) were selected to showcase the Redpoint product. One thing I did notice with the Redpoint (and others commented too) was the sheer lack of surface noise. During the hour or so I was there, I heard three ticks during a quiet passage on one of the classical LPs. I wonder if that was a result of the arm and cartridge?

The Redpoint auditioned was a new design ($8K). Instead of a round platter, this one must have had 20 sides...Uh.. a twentygon? I didn't count the number of sides but it was a lot, okay? :) The platter was driven with Magnetic VCR film which seems odd given that film seems to be full of static electricity - and Peter from Redpoint claims you can see electricity arc from the film to the platter on occasion. Guess that's why they have a "special" nut on the bearing which allows the unit to be grounded (most tables have this). The thing I can't figure out is why using something which is so prone to static charge, as a belt, is a good thing.

The Redpoint site http://www.redpoint-audio-design.com says a great deal to discount the designs (materials used) of Teres. Not nice!

First impressions count. Unfortunately, the audition left me more confused than I was -- before the audition.

Dmailer - I agree. It is difficult to accurately assess a source component in the context of an unfamiliar system. Perhaps that is the reason why I am still so confused about the the Redpoint/Teres tables. Having read so much positive feedback on these tables, I expected to be floored by the Redpoint regardless of system context, arm or cartridge.

However, the low surface noise was amazing to me... but the owner of the house / Gyro / system, didn't seem all that amazed by it. I asked him if there was less surface noise than his Gyro and he said, "hmmmm.. maybe a little bit, I don't know."

Please don't take what I said as if I were disappointed by the Redpoint. I thought it was a nice sounding table and accompanying system. In fact, I've listened to an SME 30 with Aesthetix IO sig, Wavestream V8 tube amps, and Avalon Eidolon Diamond speakers at a dealer up the street and been far LESS impressed.

Regarding the "bashing" of Teres done by Redpoint - I would have to say that based on what I've read and what Teres themselves claim about the sound of acrylic bases (not-so-good sounding), I can find logic in how an acrylic platter would sound "lower end" than other materials. This is perhaps made evident by the new Teres Cocobolo platter.
Redpoint has uses many materials - in fact, they have more platter combos than what is advertised on their website.

I asked the Redpoint rep. numerous hard questions about the table...in fact, I sort of monopolized his time...and the one stand-out reason they seem to think their platters are better is that they weigh twice as much. Given the philosophy of Redpoint & Teres tables (higher mass the better), this too makes sense to me.

on Teres platters, the Lead Filled areas are just lead shot and air. Redpoint uses Lead Shot and a mineral oil. Redpoint has tested various oils ranging in viscosity to find what they consider to be the best. The purpose of the Lead shot is not only to increase mass but diffuse micro-vibrations. My gut tells me that lead shot suspended in oil would diffuse vibrations better than lead shot in air. It seems micro-vibrations aren't strong enough to move lead shot effectively when it is suspended in air. The density of the oil allows for some of the weight of the lead to be displaced - making it "easier" to counter vibration with slight movement...also, the oil displaces vibrations itself, fills gaps, lubricates the lead, and increases the mass by a wee-bit.

Another interesting differentiator is that on Teres bearings the nut which secures the bearing housing to the base is rather small and apparently grips the base by only 1/8 of an inch. IF the hole drilled for the base causes any chips in the wood, the contact area of the nut diminishes further.

The Redpoint bearing housing is larger (1.75" vs. 1.125") in diameter and threads directly into the base - hence requiring no nut.

Also the Redpoint bearing sits on delrin - something which Teres claims sounds better but is not as durable as teflon.

Jyprez, I remember that post. It seems the acrylic may not take a liking to the mineral oil. And the brass plugs may not contain it. Redpoint seems to have designed their platters around the concept of them being filled with oil, hence they are sealed.

Peter from Redpoint mentioned that he has tried every thing from thick motor oil to alcohol as a filler and they've settled on something in-between.

I don't know Peter but he seems to be a maniac when it comes to tweakery. Everything he claims to have done to the table is simply as he put it, "because it sounds better". He is driven to push the design to its maximum potential.

I am sure both the Teres and Redpoint are fantastic in their own rights - regardless of the materials chosen. But.. if I were to go out on a limb, I would say that the Teres base (or almost any lead shot filled wooden base - Cocobolo, or maybe even Ebony) with the Redpoint bearing system fitted into the wood base (via custom threaded insert), the Redpoint Teflon and Aluminum platter, and the Redpoint motor....

(Not to fault the Teres motor design *I* just don't like the idea of a sensor - hunting for speed all the time. The Redpoint "solves" this with a speed dial.)

Anyhow, that could quite possibly be the hot setup - taking the best of both designs. That said, I have often found that a "team of allstars" doesn't always perform as harmoniously as logic dictates it should. In any given system - audio or otherwise - there are weak links which are counterbalanced by stronger influences. Ultimately a system or design is simply a sum of its parts and how those parts interact with one another.

Chris, Thanks for the additional information. (It is good to hear both sides regarding this technology)

Regarding the bearing housing being 1.5" in diameter. I am a bit confused because the Teres site says, "The Teres bearing mounts via a 1.125" diameter threaded mounting stub (see drawing)."

Did this change?

TWL - thanks for pointing that out. Also, I agree. Chris is a true gentleman and very informative! Always.

My math skills are lousy but I'll give this a try...
Assuming the nut which secures the bearing to the base is a hexigon, measuring 1.725 diameter (from Teres website) and threads around a 1.125" spindle. I estimate this would provide .3075" (slightly less than 5/16) of contact at the widest point on each side of the bearing and .1825" (slightly less than 3/16 but closer to 2/11).

This means that the average contact area of the nut would be .245" or ever-so-slightly less than 1/4". Which is double what was suggested.

The Teres Bearing Mounting Stub is 2.5" long and from the pictures I just looked at (in the 200 series manual)shows the bearing sitting inside the "mounting stub" at what appears to be a 1" depth. So since the bearing housing of the Teres bearing differs in diameter for the reservoir and the mounting stub making a statement that the bearing housing is X diameter is not exactly true is it??

While it sounds better to say the bearing housing is wider (or as Redpoint put it - the Redpoint bearing is a Teres bearing on Steroids) but does it really matter? Honestly now.

Negative? It is clear to me after reviewing the Redpoint website and meeting a Redpoint person that the aim of Redpoint is to take what was learned from the original Teres project and build on that. The marketing - and comparisons they make seem logical but as marketing goes, maybe a little exaggerated?

That is to be expected.

I think most of the "differentiation" that Redpoint provided me was in regard to the fact that I am in the process of building a Teres and I wanted to know why they think the Redpoint is better.

Chris has proven in this forum and others to be a perfect gentleman who lets the performance of his product and the happy customers do the talking.

Frankly, I am grateful that both Teres and Redpoint have put such an amazing investment into the development of their respective products.

Oh... also, the Redpoint looks better in person. I too thought they were "butt ugly" on the website. The PVC appears to be a light gray color on the website but is actually very dark gray.. About the color of un-tinted Carbon Fiber. Apparently the more "buffing" done to the PVC, the darker it gets. A rough PVC surface - just machined - would be light gray and once sanded/polished/finished its dark gray.

The 20 sided (Twenty-gon?) platter was neat-o. Looks quite cool when it spins.

For whatever reason, while looking at the website, I got the impression the Redpoint tables were "dull".. instead they are chrome-like, highly polished aluminum.