Where are your maggies??


Hi,

Just took delivery of a pair of Magnepan 3.6 R's and I'm just starting to get a handle on their sound and at the same time having some placement issues.
I'm using a Belles 250i integrated, which despite it's modest power rating seems to handle the Maggie's incredibly well....large, open soundstage, dynamic, no compression to speak of at higher spl's etc.

My only issue so far is that the overal balance and presentation is a little on the bright side of neutral, more so than the monitors that I've used for the past 6 years or so. Also, bass is definately on the 'lean' side, which doesn't help with the issue of a bright tonal balance.
I'm wondering if my room is mostly to blame for the forward presentation, and wondered if any Maggie owners could cast some light on their own placement issues with 3.6's and what steps they may have taken to overcome the forward presentation and lack of bass. I know that placement with the Maggie's is critical and so far I've spent two evenings making adjustments without any real impact to the overal sound. I have some issues with reflective surfaces, but the speakers are 10' clear from the front wall, 25 or so feet clear from one side wall, 12' clear from the other side wall and 18' from the listening chair with 3' behind the chair to the back wall. So room reflections ought not to be a significant issue given their proximity to the room boundaries.(also, they are 12 feet apart with slight toe-in and the tweeters on the outside).

I've messed around with distance from side and front wall, distance from listening seat, distance between speakers, toe-in angle, and have switched the speakers around between tweeters inside and outside.
The changes in position have effected the soundstage, imaging depth/width but have not really altered bass response or the tonal balance to any real degree.

I'm wondering if these are just inherrently 'bright' speakers with no bass??....though I have heard people claiming to get great bass response from 3.6's and have never heard anyone claiming that they are overly bright. (I've got the Maggie supplied tweeter attenuator installed also, by the way).

Should I be trying anything else as far as placement is concerned, what have others used to tame a forward sound??

Should I be concerned about the amp?...it is an integrated with a tube pre and solid state power stage, and most people describe it's sound as warm, full and tube-like.

Sorry for posting yet another 'Magnepan' thread, but my instinct is that these speakers are capable of much more than I'm getting out of them, and I have the space to allow them to 'breathe' with a room approx 30x60.
I do however have a limited budget for amps, $3k max, though I suspect the Belles is really a great amp that is up to the task of handling these puppies.

Any ideas, insights or tweaks would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,

Rooze

rooze

Showing 3 responses by rooze

Thanks to everyone for some great feedback and suggestions!...I like the idea of having 5 maggies, but going to jail has limited appeal, thanks Eldartford!

Just to clarify a couple of points that were raised:
The speakers are fully broken in, as is the amp.
The room does have a suspended floor, but it isn't one that bounces around when walked on, it's solid.
I gave the dimension out from the front wall at 10 feet, it's actually at 7 feet now, with 18 feet to the chair and 3 feet to the back wall. I'm restricted on pulling the chair forward, but I tried it on a temporary basis at 12 feet and it does sound different, better imaging and more space around instruments.

Some things I've noticed in the last 24 hrs since I first made the post: The speakers are incredibly revealing of the source, anything that is a remotely average recording is delivered warts and all. (I guess I should have known this, but this is my first real venture into a higher level of equipment).
It's interesting that some CD's that I thought previously were well recorded, now sound quite poor, whereas others that previously sounded average now sound quite spectacular. Two example of what previously sounded good on my old system are Claptons Unplugged and the Santana revival CD (can't recall the name). Both these were commonly used to demonstrate the 'fidelity' of my old rig, where now I can hardly stand to play them at any kind of volume. The Santana CD sounds compressed with poor dynamic contrast and the Clapton CD just lacks any warmth and midrange presence.
Other CD's sound spectacular - Diana Krall, Nora Jones, Chieftens, some classical etc....

Anyway, I will try the Cardas setup, though I understand that it requires an equilateral triangle between speakers and chair, which may be difficult to get past the wife....incidentally, her first comment on seeing them in the room was "I thought you said they were only a couple inches wide?" (I never lie to her!).

.....I have some work to do on amps/placement, but I really think these are incredible speakers, with tons of potential given some time, and some extra cash!!

I'm still very much open to more suggestions from anyone who has experienced these and has found things that work well regarding amps/placement.

Thanks again

Rooze
Thanks DLSHIFI, I'm working on your suggestions and things are starting to come together. Certainly, moving the chair closer to the back wall goes against some of what I've read elsewhere, but in my case, as you suggested, it really works in warming the sound a touch.
I'm having a bit of an ordeal with amps at present.
I don't want to go through the loop of buying amps online, only to have to try and sell them before I can try something else. So I'm working with a couple of local dealers who are being very helpful and providing some loaner gear.
The Belles 250i was an incredible little amp, some of what it does sounds really top-notch, but still just a little too bright for my tastes.
I tried the McIntosh 6500 integrated yesterday and it warms the sound nicely but looses out on detail and presence, not to mention transparancy. It also lacks power, the overload lights flash on and off at modest SPL's.
Today I've been trying a Mac 252 power amp, which weighs an absolute ton and is built like a tank. It too is a little short of power, it has shut down on me twice at higher SPL's. This amazes me given the size and weight of the transformers on this thing, it ought to have better current delivery, particularly having the 'autoformers' which everyone seems to rave about.
Anyway, I like the sound and presentation of the Mac (before it craps out on me!)..though it seems somewhat lacking in detail and resolution compared to the Belles?
I'm kind of getting backed into a corner with amps, I want to buy from one of my local dealers, but any models further up the range than the ones I have tried are out of my price range.....problems...problems.
Thanks again for the feedback on this thread.

Rooze
Hi...Thanks for the information and suggestions. It's been a while since I made the post above and things have moved on quite a lot since. Also, when I posted the thread we'd just moved into a new house and I used the room dimensions that were on the realtors spec sheet, it's actually a smaller room than the first post indicates, but not by much.

I've tried several amps over the last year or so, including tubes and a couple of different Krell amps. The speakers definately need gobs of power...600w into 4 ohms seems to be the minimum, and more is better.
I have tamed some of the brightness that I first reported, using different cables, amps and paying more attention to placement.
I've also rebuilt the crossovers in the past few weeks. The speakers have been tough to deal with and very frustrating at times, but I'm really enjoying them now.
I'm still messing a little with amps, but everything else is pretty well organized, finally!

What eq are you using?...I tried the Tact 2.0 but didn't have much luck with it.

Thanks again

Rooze