I am just getting in to analog, along with digital system I already have. I agree with Plato. If you are lucky enough hit the right combination of components, it is possible to get there.
My digital system, at most times, makes me feel that I got it made. I am trying find faults and kind find any at most times. I have tried much more expensive source, pre-amp, cables- but I keep coming back to my this combo. My recent very good analog system (goose bump amd wow factor inducing) auditions only confirmed that I got it made. My digital (nothing fancy- no upsampling, no multi buck) source is pretty basic and cost under $2000 retail. It somehow works in my set up. And all this in not an optimum room set up. This system sounds almost like analog, with little more detail and presence. No hash. Zero background noise. Very Dynamic. Music emerges from black front or rear of the soundstage.
So it is possible to get soul with digital.
Although I am learning that getting there in analog is much more easier than digital. I would say analog gets you there rather easily. Digital I am finding out is stroke of luck and much more difficult. Buying best source, best preamp, $xxK amp does not gurantee this in digital. |
Mmaksahk, Does APL Denon 3910 do over or upsampling or is it straight-up 16/44.1? Sorry I am not familiar with this model. Is it Denon CD player and modified or is it APL brand using Denon transport mechanism. What does DSP do? Is there any Alex's web site I can go to?
I do agree with Vinyl being standard for comparision. Even with my limited experience of less than one year w/analog. |
Thanks Mmakhak, I will fine and look up Alex's website. I need a cd transport/dac combo that don't do no monkey business-:). I am still debating among DCS stack, Emm Labs, MBL and Metronome. If it delivers analog like sound for reals that It is a keeper for long long time. |
All you have to do is here is one live musial event of a particular genre (Jazz, Rock or classical), make a lot mental notes, come home put one LP of same genre and style (of course the same exact music is even better), listen carefully. Then while memory still fresh, put on a CD of same LP and listen. Be honest. Admit which is more CLOSER to the live event you just attended. Well I have done this many times this year. LPs come ahead every single time. Sure CDs can sound SPECTACULAR, but NOT like the live event. Don't take my word for it, Do it deligently and many times as possible. IMHO of course. I do listen to CDs but only when I don't want WASTE my LPs ;-) |
Vulcanaudio, I have too! Through Zanden digital combo!! |
Detlof! Absolutely Poetic!!
Are you sure English is your second language? Are you a poet?
I KNOW it sure is not German to English Translation software. How I know? Just read Porsche's user's manuals ;-). |
Detlof, agree that it is hellish task to get both formats right in same system. I did though using same same make preamp and phono. Same (but different than the electronics) make TT, Tone arm and cartridge. Then I changed the bearing in my TT to Magnetic and my old cartridge died and I got another of same cartridge, practically new and sound changed in certain freq range. From midbass to low mids it is hard to tell difference- I constantly mistake one for the other, Highs are now extended and a bass a bit tighter in my TT set up. I use same make cabling and power conditioning all around to minimize unknowns.
With all that said, In my system the digital has 'slightly' more soul. It is not perfect, (but nothing is) but next to the real thing. May be when my new cartridge gets broken in, things will be different. I doubt it though. |
"Some of those CD's could be digital versions of RCA "Shaded Dogs."
Or Tom Waits' Rain Dogs
Or simply you are not a dog (CD) person ;-) |
Albertporter and others who have had frustrating experience with digital, I am not sure which $$$$$ digital you have tried but, i tell you, if you ever have a chance give it a try on the Zanden digital combo. It would be even more rewarding and eye opening experience if you have a luxury to audition the combo in an all Zanden system... I have a good fortune to have an all Zanden system at home for now, oh may be 4 years and the Zanden actually beats analog more times than not. And my analog (uses Zanden Phono pre also) is also optimized. On excellent recordings it is * hard* to tell the difference. I love my Zanden digital especially there is more software choices available in CD than Vinyl.
It delivers jaw dropping life like performance every time i put on *modern* ( read: new releases) Jazz or rock or classical CDs. Better the recordings, better the performance. I have practically the whole CD catalogue from RR and Mapleshade and it even excels the already stellar performance I get from *regular* jazz/classical labels. It is truly the digital with tons of soul- all with the humble 16/44.1 CD format. It features no oversampling and true phase coherent design.
I am not here to say mine is better than yours -or brag, just to prove form personal experience that the digital * has* got soul, you just have to find the right source- like many have found in theirs. Sure analog tape could be better and Vinyl too ( at times, yes even in my set up it does exceed digital at times for certain genre) but what good is having finite number of master tapes copies whereas there is much more choices with Vinyl material and even more with CDs.
So yes, I have found a soul in digital.
It was not not an easy journey though, both in terms of $$ and time. I, too, went through (audition and bought) number of digital units prior to this- one notable being the Metronome digital combo. Peace!! |
Indeed it is very hard to get details, dynamics and warmth but like with right tubes and system *synergy* (here we ago again- components, cabling and matched speakers) it is possible to get both, may be not to the fullest as experienced in real life but what I perceive is best possible today in audio reproduction.
If recordings is bad or compressed no digital (or vinyl for that matter) system in the world can make that hight freq nastiness go away and make it sound sweeter- not even mine ;-)
Boy that Kanye's new album is real good- musically, but recordings is horribly compressed. On the other hand say albums by Arcade fire or Deerhunter or The walkmen or Dave Holland's hands or Wynton Marsallis's Vitoria suite- all a pleasure to listen to. |
Frank, agree 100% on your 12/21/10 post:
"Tvad, actually the answer IS all 3. What makes it even more bizarre is that you can pick up the total system of someone who says answer 1, plunk it down, absolutely perfectly transported and setup identically in every way, matching room treatments, etc, in the home of someone who says answer 2, and the answer for this new setup CAN still be 2, even for the original owner if he were to visit the new location of his former system."
for many reasons talked in latter posts. To give you example: even plugging my mono amps from its current resident outlets (nothing fancy, just stock) to *different* similar outlets or even the recently installed 20 amp dedicated line w/ Oyaide outlets can change answer from my current 1 to 3 or even 2. Go figure that one out. I really can't, other than may be luck? |
