When is digital going to get the soul of music?


I have to ask this(actually, I thought I mentioned this in another thread.). It's been at least 25 years of digital. The equivalent in vinyl is 1975. I am currently listening to a pre-1975 album. It conveys the soul of music. Although digital may be more detailed, and even gives more detail than analog does(in a way), when will it convey the soul of music. This has escaped digital, as far as I can tell.
mmakshak

Showing 7 responses by cdwallace

Yes Guido, we do! About as much as we love glaring into the LED eyes of the system were "dating"...after 2.5 bottles of Cognac of course. Only thing is, digital won't result in a hangover or chaffing in the morning.

(The dating idea was yours, remember?) ;)

Hey next rounds on me, everybody! Drink til your liver hurls. :)
"My APL Hi-Fi Denon 3910 cost me $2500 and beats my $10,000 analog(circa 1992). Now, my analog is old and not completely dialed in, but isn't that why digital was so successful to begin with?"

Mmak...thanks for the kind words. To be perfectly candid, technologically speaking of course, age is not a pertinant factor. Your 1992 analog system, more than likely, employed the same ideaology and application as the original 1960's version when it was created. I'm not certain of course, because I don't know what you system consisted of.

Granted, there may have been improvements through the years, but for the most part, depending on the components used, it's probably a duplicate of the original. Digital used this and things similar, as a "springboard", allowing it to capitolize on the shortcomings of analog. It took the same principals that produced the good qualities in analog, formed its own "signature", and carried the audio torch further, where and when analog could not. IMO, I don't think analog shortcomings is what made digital so good. Digital is an entity all in itself, just as analog; allowing for its own "evolution", just as analog. Your systems age or incomplete setup, as you say, has no bearing in this instance.

"Most people didn't dial in their analog, or went with direct-drive."

I beg to differ on this. You have a point, but its not what you perceive. Far too many people have "dialed in" thier analog systems, and have learned to accentuate and even manipulate analog to the creation it is today. All be it, these systems also sounded very good. This is why I say that analog has improved since its creation until now. This is where the evolution part comes into play. People have managed to bring out the best in analog. Some may have, as you say, went onto direct drive. Nevertheless, many have gotten analog as good as it gets.

"Cdwallace, I understand that you are stating what has been said previously, but do you realize that 5.1 has Dolby involved to make it work?"

This is a very true statement, but somewhat incomplete. Yes, dolby has played an important role in making 5.1 what it is. Be it from a technology/format standpoint and even from an industry/marketing point of view. However, Dolby did not make MC what it is. There many variation of MC surround, to include versions and configutations of 5.1 (ITU and others), 5.0, 10.2, ambiosonics, and even others. Like Bose, Dolby was able to take advantage of an opportunity, as well as capitolize (Dolby) on its own legitimate advances in technology. Dolby played a major role in the advancement of MC, but Dolby didn't make it what it is.

"I haven't spent much time looking at this, but I would think that if correction is applied, that the argument that digital is meant for surround sound would have some holes in it, if it requires correction."

This is a common practical misconseption. A properly setup high end 2CH system still has room for correction. As does a MC system. This does not and should not imply that there is "something wrong" with the format, though. The correction merely implys room for improvement. A high end 2CH system in an empty bare room can be "corrected" in the performance by the addition of room acoustic treatments and such. Does this mean that 2CH is errored? No, but this situation showed room for improvement, which, in this case, would produce noticable results.

Digital is what it is, just as 2CH analog. However, same rules applied, just as room acoustics helped in the previous scenario, surround improves digital which produces noticable results. Granted, room acoustic correction can help any system, 2Ch or MC. I only used that to help further my point. No format is perfect, but when setup and configured to its optimum, it brings the format much closer to perfection. Surround does this for digital.

"I have read that the harshness of highs can go away with surround versus two-channel with cd."

Mmak, this is only the beginning. Surround, done correctly, can produce remarkable results for digital. One Dobly created "format" comes to mind as well, Dolby PL. This isn't the only one, and there are others that were not Dolby created or inspired, which can redirect and/or eliminate digital "shortcomings" as well.
OK...who might those people be that helped you out tremendously? You should thank them.
Nil and Adhoc...I'll have to agree on this with you. When you listen to an LP (analog) on the same 2CH system and configuration as a CD (digital) 2Ch system, chances are you will come closer to live with the LP (analog). And I even know why. Because the "playing field" is uneven.

Digital is not optimal in 2Ch. Sad but true. This is why so many hate digital, because they can't grasp that it isn't optimal in this setup. It's horrible in 2CH.

However to level off the playing field, digital needs to be played in the configuration it was optimally designed for...MC. Otherwise your be chasing your tail each time. Let digital do what it does best and was designed to do, MC. Now things are more even!

When you factor this into play, LP's are a thing of the past! As for soul, digital has DSP's to take the edge off, amoungst other things.
Mmak - Don't get me wrong. I'm by no means the expert or pretend to be either. I've had a mentor (D_Edwards) to walk me through a lot of what I and others have mentioned before regarding 2CH and MC. Infact, truth be known, you can't get MC any where near "right" unless you follow the same steps for perfecting 2CH first. Thats another story in itself, that many just don't believe. Why...who knows.

Anyway, there isn't a lot left to reveal. There are no "secrets", just facts at are readily avialable to everyone. Its all there for people to see and try for themselves. Its just a matter of being openminded and willing enough to give it a try. This is what us "MC guys" are saying when it comes to this thread.

MMak this next statement isn't directed at you...directly :)

If there are any other specific questions or statements, wheteher its from MMak or anyone else, fire away. However, if it doesn't sound like the concensus, don't call it hogwash or start with name callings. If you don't agree, great. Just don't get gun shy when we ask one came to thier objective conclusion.

MMak - I and others will be more than glad to help where ever we can. Post more questions or shoot me an email.
Mmak, I will say this...as fair warning. If you hear what you've read about surround, then the system is not setup correctly! I can say that with the upmost confidence because I've heard systems (my own, others, and those it audio hobbyshops) that sounded horrible until they were setup properly.

I've read about $200k systems that were surpposed to sounded "musical" and everything but actually sounded the complete opposite. If you want music, then we need to talk further. Be careful what you read because it may cause you to miss out.

As for Dolby...if you let that sidetrack you, you'll never find what you're looking for. Dolby is just a "name" if you will. Similar to the bose "name", but different in far too many ways. Dolby doesn't correct (per se), but Dolby "redirects"...places things in its proper place and perspective, as far as surround is concern. It takes the information that was condenced does to 2 channels (CD's etc.) and "uncondenses" the info and spreads it out across 5; processing the info to keep it in line with the correct placement of the 2 channel info. I hope that makes sense.

The goals has nothing to do with Dolby, its about helping you out where possible.

Let up know how it goes.