My admitted lack of credibility on this forum is irrelevant, as I would not be asking anyone to believe anything I say. I would simply release the data and you would see for yourself. |
I have no ax to grind against this company. I'm not even an audiophile. They have done nothing to me except waste some of my time. |
And my apologies I should clarify that I only have data on one particular product being regularly shill bid. I have not checked or saved data on their other products, which obviously they may or may not be shill bidding as well. |
Inna, that was my thought as well and I called them out on it when I first figured it out. They just denied it.. and it appears have not skipped a beat. I've got data from April 2014 to current, although there are some gaps. |
Say no more, the info will be provided. I just need to redact my personal identifiers from the documents..
If someone here has a handle on shill bidding it would be nice if you would volunteer to look at this before it is publicly posted on the off OFF chance I am missing something. I assure you I am not, but nevertheless.. |
Inna, you are exactly correct again. This is all risk with no reward to me. The safe thing would be to stand by and do nothing. And no offense to any of you but I don't want to become an audiophile. In part, because this experience -- my first potential audiophile level product purchase -- turned me off so much. With that said, if anyone wants to cut me a deal on an Adcom GFA-555 I wouldn't be offended. Just saying. |
But really, why does this have to be about me? I just have the information. Frankly I thought one of you would step up to the plate, take the information and do with it what you will. It is your community, not mine. |
Audiogon does auctions where audio manufacturers sell equipment? I didn't know that. I thought it was all person to person/ used stuff here..
So to be clear I'm not talking about auctions on this website. This is on another auction site that is, uhm, pretty well known. And the products in question I guess you would call 'audio accessories' although they do make speakers. |
You know the more I think about this you don't even need my data because there is enough right there on that other auction site to review and see what is going on. I think you have enough clues now to go search for completed listings on that other site and look for repeating bids on each and every auction of a particular product of, oh, I don't know maybe $75 and $99. That is a starting point for you. So why don't some of you put your own big boy pants on and go see for yourself what is going on and stop putting this all on me. If you happen to pick up on any patterns, just know they go back at least to April 2014 and that I have those bidding records saved. |
Jeffb, what part of 'all the info you need is still on the other site' dont you get? And I am wrong for starting a rumor about a dealer when I haven't even named a dealer? And simultaneously I am wrong for dragging this out and not providing the information? And did I say I was a lurker?
Besides, what is the rush? This is not about your entertainment. I'd suggest, if you aren't going to look into it yourself, you give some of the other members here a chance to check this out and report back. I've led you to water and you're complaining that I won't pour the drink down your throat. |
"You expect him to go to the worlds auction site, ebay, and look for bids on electronics for around $90 that could be construed as shill, and then apply it to a particular brand of electronics that sells cables and speakers?" Basically, yes. Or wait for someone else to that understands its really not all that complicated to do it.
"That's where you expose yourself as a fraud. If the answer is just a couple of mouse clicks away, like you say it is, what difference does it make if you name the company or someone else does with your "help"? None whatsoever." If Audiogon members confirm what I've been saying it makes all the difference, right? Maybe I'm missing your point.
And name calling, really? Didn't think this was that kind of place. |
Please stop for a second and consider that just maybe everything I've said here is correct, I have no ulterior motive, and I am just trying to pass along the information about this unfair practice to the people most likely to be harmed by it, while at the same time not trying to take unnecessary risk or cause problems for myself [note what Chayro said in the other thread]. Relax and wait for one of your members to figure this out. This is not about me. I did not buy their product because I saw what was happening before I did. Some of you bought the product though. Its up to you what to do about it. |
"You're an Audiogon member yourself. There's no difference if you give the name, or someone else does. If you can't do something that simple would anyone believe you?"
I see what you are saying now, but I just disagree with you. I'm going to listen to Chayro and others that basically said its not worth it. Sorry if that's not the result some wanted. Perhaps the company in question will see how close they just came to being outed and knock it off. I named this thread "what would you do," because I wanted to know what you would do. For those that answered that question, thank you. For those of you buying via auction sites [especially new items sold repeatedly by the same seller] you would be wise to do a completed listing search for the specific product you are buying, then look at the bids, then compare the partially hidden bidders to other auctions for the same item from the same seller for patterns. Does the same bidder bid on almost every auction and not win? Does one bidder seem to bid up the auction early on, and a second bid up the end? Then check the bidder by clicking on the partially hidden name and see if there is a high "% of bids with this seller," and other stats that may or may not be helpful in the analysis. You can then look at the seller's other product listings for bids by the same bidders and/or similar patterns. And don't discount the obvious, for example, do all of the seller's auctions wind up selling for a somewhat consistent price? If that sounds complicated, it really isn't once you get a hang of it. I think I've done my part here. Good luck. |
