What will you be playing to celebrate?

"Another One Bites The Dust" by Queen

"He was trained and funded by the CIA during the Iran/Iraq war..." Bmwhaus, do you realize that we did that because the United States sovereign territory was invaded by Iranians and our Embassy staff was held hostage?

"Osama Bin Laden was trained by the CIA to fight against the Russians during the Afgan war..." Bmwhaus, do you realize that if the Soviet Union would have succeeded the Berlin wall likely wouldn't have come down?

"There are two sets of rules for this planet..." Bmwhaus, the vast majority of member countries in the UN have governments that actively work against their citizens basic human rights. Do you really wonder why the US doesn't allow them to control what we do? Left to the UN we would all be living under Iraqi type rule.

Jeffloistarca, Saddam was found in a 6x6x8 foot hole in a country we occupy. Think about it. We did find the needle in the haystack. Bin Laden is likely in an area outside of our control. That makes finding the needle in a haystack just a little more difficult. Besides, it's obvious that Bin Laden is smart whereas Saddam was just a successful thug.

To those that think the UN is the answer to all our problems, think Rawanda.

I want to make myself perfectly clear on a few issues that I would likely get tagged wrong on. First, GWB isn't my hero. World bankers control world events, not world leaders. My heart goes out to fundamentalist Muslims. The very voices here in this thread that oppose rejoicing at the capture of Saddam also desire an anything goes approach to what we see, hear and do in the United States. This liberal approach to removing wholesome values is the root of the problem. Think about it. The liberals want any language, any act, any piece of art, or whatever, that the vast majority in this country finds replusive to be allowed for "freedoms" sake. With satellite television and internet accessability the Middle East is being exposed/bombarded to that which the fundamentalists find to be "of the Great Satan". The fundamentalists are losing control as the Middle Eastern population slowly embraces unwholesome values. I don't find it surprising that Muslim extremists are committing terrible acts out of desparation to save their very way of life. No, I don't condone terrorism and hope the world has the resolve to continue fighting it. When you want to see anything, hear anything or do anything please stop and think of the reprecussions of your desires. The entire glode is now your stage and a lot of it doesn't care for the play. Liberalism is the problem, not the solution.

Gunbei, Great historical perspective. Thanks for taking the effort! You are right on the money. 4yanx and Slipknot1, great contributions from you guys too. And Slipknot1, remember that when anyone criticizes your conspiracy thoughts.....just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. ;)

Gunbei,

You certainly have a very, very good understanding of history. I've enjoyed your posts to this thread a lot. You've put considerable effort into your posts and have enlightened many readers that obviously are emotional on these subjects rather than intellectual.

My father barely survived the Bataan death march. He didn't speak of his experiences until shortly before his death of cancer in 1995 and only then because I begged him. I had been told by one of his fellow Marines of his attempt to save his closest, wounded friend by physically assisting him. The Japanese soldiers that forced this march were furious that Dad and his wounded friend could keep up the pace and made a cruel game out of slowly making them fail. Dad received several minor bayonet wounds that ultimately slowed them down. At a point when his friend slipped from his grasp he turned, locked eyes and watched as a bayonet was shoved through his friends throat. Even after this experience Dad never spoke harshly of the Japanese as a people.

It has been estimated that 500,000 US soldiers lives were saved by the two bombs dropped on Japan. In Harry Truman's own words that is why he decided to use nuclear weapons. Saving face lost its significance once the bombs were dropped. So, now we know that saving face is determined by its cost of doing so. Since there is no such threat today Japanese society doesn't feel compelled to lose face by admitting and apologizing for the slave comfort girls from Korea and China. Pride is keeping hatred throughout the Orient on a low burn.

I've had the pleasure of working intimately with several Japanese engineers on an egg breaker joint project in the mid 80's. (Before you make fun of an egg breaker, understand that it separates the yolk and egg whites to the tune of 36,000 eggs per hour with one operator. We're not talking about throwing eggs here.) I enjoyed their company immensely and we became good friends, or as good of friends as we could during the three months we were together. One of the engineers was a survivor of Nagasaki. On an evening when I arranged a huge Japanese meal, figuring they were growing tired of American food, this fellow spoke of WWII. All of his subordinates were solemn while he spoke as was I. He wanted me to know that he felt the Americans did what they had to do and he had no hard feelings at all. This was a totally unsolicited commentary.

Slappy is right. If only the likes of that elderly engineer and my father could have a meaningful voice in world affairs we would live in a better place. Unfortunately it's a rare occurance when a real human being rises to leadership.

Most conflict on the world stage arises by design. Even knowing history from every textbook angle one must be Sherlock Holmes to see the real criminals. The money brokers control the unfolding of events and the outcome. Their roles are left out of the textbooks because too few even know who they are. War is a huge smokescreen that keeps them hidden from view. Once war is over they scoop up property and industry when governments are destroyed and religious institutions are weakened.

Slappy is right that problems are created by a small percentage of the worlds population but it is far less than a million. More like a handful.

So, what are you Viridian, the hall monitor? Does freedom of speech bother you only when faced with opposing points of view? If you do not agree with the majority of the posters here then step up to the pump and say something meaningful rather than a snide comment about this being a troll. Prior to the current conflict in Iraq these forums were a daily barrage of anti-US sentiments and we had to tolerate them, especially the never ending, "where is Saddam?" after the war began. Now we have him and you're not happy with that. Give us all a break, please. If you don't like this crowd you didn't need to even click on this link.

Viridain,

It's unfortunate that you deleted your post. Then again, Audiogon will likely delete this entire thread soon rather than leave it for its historic value. "Some are just uncomfortable with viewpoints that conflict with their own"? That describes well the post you made disappear. Now this thread is mysterious.

So, Here's a question for you. If the war in Iraq was wrong, why has Lybia offered to dismantle its WMD program that it previously said didn't exist? Do you think it would have done so without the capture of Saddam?

Some of us served our country during Vietnam and remember well the way veterans were treated by the protesters. It's funny how the anti-Vietnam crowd rewrites their behavior 30 years after the fact. Nobody in that movement will admit to spitting on the returning soldiers and calling them baby killers. The tune played today is that they supported our troops then (and now) but opposed the war. Not. The truth is that the portesters were antagonistic toward returning troops.

Right or wrong, the political pressure to leave Vietnam made for a too hasty retreat. Several hundred thousand South Vietnamese were slaughtered by the North when we left. This isn't talked about in the never ending Vietnam debate.

For the record I didn't say anything about kids and playgrounds and to paraphrase my comments in that way shows a mean spirit of intolerance which was very apparent in the post you deleted. You made some pretty disparaging remarks about the posters here not representing the majority opinion in the US and that makes you wrong.

While I wouldn't accuse you of being less than sane I will say that you are wrong headed. Of course, that's my opinion on things and, as always, others may differ.

Viridian,

Apology accepted and no hard feelings.

Kkursula,

My point wasn't partially correct. I was referencing the connection between Saddam's capture and what Lybia has done. I didn't feel compelled to write the history of the world to make that point. But you, ever knowledgable, never reactionary, have it figured out as a Christmas present to Bush and Blair. You lost all credibility with that one.

Such a hostile invitation for the reactionaries to "meet" you at CES was totally uncalled for and seems to be a less than civilized solicitation.