What speaker after Thiel 7.2?

The 7.2 isn't that good, the list I have is long, heck I even like the Wilson Watt Puppy 7 more than the 7.2.

ATC SCM100ASL---- Maybe the 7.2 has deeper bass but this is a very onesided contest. The 100's play louder, image better, have more timbrel accuracy....on and on. $15,000 with amplifiers its a no brainer. ATC provides a whole other world of playback performance. More accurate more dynamic.

Dynaudio Confidence Any, once again maybe give up the last little bit bass extension, but again play louder, more actual clarity and detail, images better than the Thiel and the ATC, but in my experience some of the worst sounding speakers image super well.

The least expensive speaker might be the ATC SCM-20-2 with a concept 4 subwoofer, even without the subwoofer the 20's better the thiels in the frequencies it covers in common with the 7.2.

Aerial 20T is another to consider.

When people own Thiel its like finding a speaker for a klipsch owner. The sound is so unique and its attributes accentauted that what is it that needs to be changed puts us in the certain direction to help you more specifically.

Whatever David;

Whether I was a dealer or not my advice would not change. 75% of my advice I don't carry.

Everyone, I'm an ATC dealer.

The dealer I was employed by dropped the line because the speakers were uncompetitive and taking up space (after I left). By the way the same thing happened to Sonus Faber...if you want to see me get negative now there's a speaker line I can get negative about. To save time, I have been less diplomatic but I haven't told you anything I haven't told to the people at Thiel. So I'm no coward about this, it is what it is. And until they made the 2.4 there was nothing anyone could do to change it. Finally a good speaker from Thiel!, if they keep going I might become a dealer. Then I won't be able to talk about them on Audiogon.

This whole conversation brings this analogy to mind, I am a Tampa Bay Buccaneer fan since the drafted Hugh Green from the Pitt Panthers, so I have seen some hard times being a "fan". But I'm going to stick up for them and hope they do better next year or in the case of the 80's next decade. When you are a professional you are not afforded the luxuries of being a "fan". David you are a fan of Thiel and i'm picking on your team. you're the one not be reasonable or rational, you are not being objective. The speakers we discussed are bad speakers for the money and are terribly misrepresented by the press. Now this is how I look at it, put yourself in this position. One of your best friend wants a new stereo system and he's heard really great things about Bose and has read all the positive reviews and a couple of friends have chimed in to say how happy they are, what are you going to do? what would any of you do? He has all the back up you you claim to have with thiel and Bose gets pushed out the door at a staggering magnitude...How do you approach this? He's owned Bose 901-s for 15 years...where do you start.

I haven't heard one person say the 2.3 is as good as the 2.4, so if the difference is so clear cut then how can the 2.3 be world class and the 2.4 not be the end all be all?

As for the 7.2 its unique at best but if you like them more power to ya!. To think you could own a $14,000 speaker and if its not setup perfectly its dumpable? Sounds like a keeper to me.

BTW I used the 7.2 for 6 months to sell my personal designs, which I am dealer for. Imagine the shock of potential clients when my $6500 active speakers actually made a violin sound like a violin and not an expensive egg slicer like the 7.2. It was a great back drop for all the speakers I sold.

What better vehicle than to use a supposed to be and compare it to a really is. Sells the the really is everytime. Its a shame someone bought them because they were making me look good. Now I got ATC SCM-150ASL's at home and I'm back to being an amateur.

"You couldnt sell them,while other dealers were pushing them out the door."

I prefer nobody bought them, I don't sell anyone anything, I give you the information and you make the decision. Like I mentioned some time ago to bad I can't do a demo for you. All this talk is pointless, a 20 minute demo we'd see eye to eye we still may disagree but we'd understand each other much better.

David do you want me to send you some ATC's?

Rob I'll send you some 100's and then I will take back everything I said about the 7.2s so you wont have to sell them on Ebay, you can sell them here :).

I must answer you;

I'm an idiot for getting into debates that cannot be solved through discussion. I love that everyone's having fun with this thread, it was a setup and I think I should have been a little more outrageous in my answers, but the egg slicer comment is a classic. Hope everyone appreciates the entertainment value.

Irish 65 I agree with you and thanks for setting such a classic example on that other thread. That thing about the LP's was textbook.

Lrsky wrote

"But if you have a large room with limited room reflections from certain problematic distances they could be very good. Most people would say they are fairly good speakers, despite what one writer here said.

Lrsky, Does fairly good cut it for you at $14,000?

"Dear Ferry Porsche I'd like a fairly good racecar this year for LeMans" "Buy a Jaguar" was his response

Fairly good cuts it for me at $600

"limited room reflections from certain problematic distances"

Yeah be nice to have those distances in the manual. But those distances aren't available, and if the 7.2 shouldn't have reflections from the side walls why would the 2.3 rely on sidewall reflections to "fill-in the midrange response dip". ??? I really want to know.

"Don't be discouraged that someone rains on your product, it's typical of human nature, born of a lack of information or jealousy that perhaps they couldn't afford a speaker costing $12K"

Would anyone like the 7.2's crossover schematic? I know a good deal more about the 7.2 than you might think. Would you like to know why I have the schematic? Do you understand the crossover and how that crossover really works? Ever measure the drivers, ever measure the speaker?

As for raining on his speaker he opened the can by asking the question "What speakers after Thiel 7.2", and I'm the jealous ill-informed idiot that has an issue with a "fairly good" $12,000 (in basic black) speaker. Thiel is supposed to be the best not "fairly good" with undisclosed known room interaction problems and cone breakup problems.

I don't like being negative, but what have I said that isn't true? My opinion is negative about the 7.2 and I apologize to anyone I have harmed but I stand by the proof I have to back it up. I've "owned" CS7.2's two instances for several months at a time, they were in my home on my system. On axis to +/- 15 degrees they measure very well steady state and have excellent bass measurements and it shows in their sound. Dynamically they fall apart, the only reason I can go on so much about this was this was a long comprehensive project to make these speakers work so they would sell. The effort was sincere, and the concluding results unfortunate and dissappointing. I said enough, too much really.

The demo offer is still open to David 99 and Rtn1, Chuck if I find a cheap pair your the first guy I'll email.

PS: Sonance "I've only had experience with the 2.4 and the 1.6, and find it somewhat puzzling that they're being compared to Bose"

1st the performance of the speaker was not being compared to Bose, the analogy addressed the fact that reputation sustains them more than the actual performance of the speaker. Regular people buy bose because they are told they are good....does that help clarify the matter?

2nd if you look at the 2 main posts on this topic, you will note that I like the CS2.4, I think its a great speaker. But I don't get credit for that. :)

Venom? What did I say that was venomous, the fact that I have lots of facts and experience with the product something very few people in this thread have. Have you heard any of the speakers I recommended over the Thiels, (please note the topic of this thread) which one in your experience doesn't outperform the CS7.2?

I'm just asking, because i'd like to know?

Have a good weekend guys

Lrsky,

It is all relative as you say, for me and my clients $14,000 is a serious investment. When people spend that kind of money I don't think they expect compromise, I don't think they want caveats and asterisks next to the performance of their equipment.

Yes many people will think the 7.2 is a good speaker until they hear some of the speakers on my list above then the bar will be raised once again. Then their opinion would change. I have demonstrated the CS7.2s to hundreds of people, most of them I did not know at the time and do not know today. Since you are beyond your limit I will spare you the general consensus of their opinion.

I never bought 7.2's Lrsky, they were traded in to me, I brokered them for people that's why I put owned in quotes. My point was my knowledge and experience with this speaker was quite thorough and extensive. I would stop explaining my position if you would stop trying to discredit what I say and that my knowledge is limited on this speaker.

BTW I made an assumption about who you are, we have met and talked on the phone. Yes the measurements are in credible as I noted (steady state), maybe some of the best bass at the price point. But as I mentioned before something happens to them when they are playing under dynamic conditions that make the timbre's change. Infact if you don't listen to them very loud and stick to audiophile jazz recordings these speakers will do the job very well.

Here is where my opinion intervenes, I find that too restrictive a pallette for a speaker that is $14,000. So evaluate my opinion based on that, if at 14,000 you expect that level of compromise then my opinion is irrelevant.

Chuck I like the CS3.6's very musical and until the 2.4's came about probably the best value for performance speaker in the thiel line. I may know where you can get a pair. A gentleman just upgraded his CS3.6's to ATC SCM150's and may be interested in selling them. I'll email you the details. Give me a couple days.

Lrsky as for "beyond your limit" I meant that you were irritated about this subject. I think your personal attack proves that my presumption was correct. Mr. read everything as negative and take it personal.

When you get your ASL's together we'll have to compare them to my $2400 active speakers, see who knows what. That's probably the only way to see who's credentials stack up to mean the most.

As for the 3.7....with a little intuition clearly the CS6 is the coaxial version of the 3.6, it just costs about $3000 more than should to be a CS3.7. So its been difficult to make a speaker that fits the price point of an upgraded coaxial 3.6 when your choices are to make a slightly smaller 6 or a slightly bigger 2.3. This has a great deal to do with the delay of a 3.7. I wonder which of these variation it will be. And the fact the the 3.6 is still competitive with most of the Thiel line after 11 years has kept it running as has been said.

Lrsky any input on that?

I wonder if the other posters would be interested in knowing that you were the one who told me that the CS2.3 relies on the side walls to fill in the hole on axis in the midrange?

The other Cinematic_Systems/ Lrsky anecdote was the miswired CS7.2s that you "listened to extensively" before they left the factory. Were you just lying to me then?

And we got along so well and nice conversations on the phone back then.

So In the end we have a ex-thiel employee and 2 Thiel owners vs. an ex-thiel dealer.

Have to think this is a pretty thorough outline of the CS7.2, lastly I was wondering if someone could explain to me how my criticisms were any harsher than Lrsky's.

"I never liked the 3.6 as it embodies the flaws of most typical speakers of first order cross overs. Plus the midrange literally flies into pieces when over driven, ask Dreamworks in Nashville, if that isn't true."

Am I missing something? I'd like to know so I don't make this mistake again. I hate being the loudest clown.