time for this thread to die
no more useful info for the op, and for everyone else reading it, it must be a terrible bore
life is short
lets all move on |
@grannyring
agree
the drivel is everywhere, crowds out useful opinions
curious, in your view, where have the other good guys gone? audio asylum is pretty dead... |
A: My friend just died of a stroke
B: But his body temp was exactly 98.6 - he was healthy
A: He smoked like a chimney and ate bacon every meal
B: But his blood pressure was exactly at the mid point of normal range for his age and weight
A: Are you an idiot - he is dead
B: I believe based on my measurements he is still alive
A: Dumb ass
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@speedbump6
couldn't agree w you more... cheers |
@mvrooman1526
i am only asking specifically about the perceived sq difference from the streamer swap from node 2i to lumin - both feeding the same audio mirror dac
you are saying there WAS a difference, but very small, correct? what was the difference? |
@mvrooman1256
curious if you went from node 2i to lumin while you had your audio mirror dac already... if so:
- any perceivable sq improvement in going bs --> lumin?
- what connection used?
- what speakers and amps in system?
presuming you used node 2i bnc digital out... not its poor onboard dac
many thanks |
as to what matters in a dac, let’s make this simple, even though it isn’t...
a) the digital (bitstream) input signal needs to be received and timed correctly for d-to-a conversion, so clock circuit and jitter reduction is key, this is done by electrical isolation, reclocking as needed
b) then the actual d to a conversion / filtering needs to happen with low distortion both in freq response and in timing (phase response) - this is done by the internal dac chip/circuit or discrete ladder network, depending on design
c) then the analog output (post conversion) needs to be prepared for output to the receiving device... this is done by internal amplifiers, or transformers, or some other method... very rarely is the output ported straight out of the dac chip (there can be impedance mismatches with preamps/amps/whatever device is to receive the signal to amplify to drive speakers/headphones you listen to)
d) all the above needs to fed clean and strong power so they do what they do without added noise, so internal power supply design and quality (and power supply isolation of the analog from the digital sections) is key
so when knowledgeable people correctly say, "it isn’t just the dac chip (akm, burrbrown, ess sabre, wolfson...) or the ladder chip (philips tda, etc etc) or fpga (custom circuit) that makes a difference, it is the IMPLEMENTATION of it", that means ALL THE ABOVE designed and working in concert to produce good analog sound, as a holistic system
’what goes into a dac to make it good’ class 101 now in recess
hope this helps
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@listening99
i won’t get into the ’accuracy’/measurements debate... it is old hat, no light all heat - i am into this for musical reproduction that pleases me, in my listening space, really don’t care about the rest... there is a place for measurement in hifi, but to me it is limited, the ultimate test is listening pleasure produced, we are not buying digital thermometers here
i think it is also a fools errand to try to ’justify’ the last 10% of performance... some want it and can afford to go for it, others can’t even hear it nor afford the pursuit -- value is about money... end of the day, money in and of itself is over-rated if you have enough to be comfortable ... it is the experiences, enlightenment and joy that money may buy that matter
also, don’t get sucked into used market availability of X as a metric of value... used items can be good but they are available because they have been successful, sold many units, after a while, end users want newer, so they re-sell... used porsche 911’s aren’t lousy sports cars because there are many used ones for sale, just the opposite
yes ps directstream has features, but so does denafrips... my ares ii is fun to play with, with its various nos/os and filter options, very cool piece, lots of dac for what you pay
i am not trying to talk to into a vs b, just pointing out the nuances and manifold issues in the consideration
good luck have fun
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@djones51
see we woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning
sorry that being on this lil forum makes you so unhappy
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@listening99
denafrips is one of several companies that make superb sounding dacs at reasonable prices - as you mention, their ares 2 entry level model priced at a small fraction of top tier dacs in the 5 grand and up range - dena is a chinese firm, selling consumer direct, bypassing the dealer network and its 80-100% margin, so there is that value conveyed to the end user for sure
that being said, as you mention as well, the ps audio DS is programmable, can be updated via software downloads, can have a streamer/dac appended via an internal board, so there is future proofing and great flexibility that denafrips does not provide - furthermore you can only buy the denafrips units from a retailer in singapore (seriously!), if there is a problem with the unit you need to scramble for help... so there is value in other elements than pure SQ
now, also, note the denafrips makes the terminator, a 4-5 grand dac, and now they are also introducing a terminator plus, a 7-8 grand dac, all based on the same basic architecture
so within just one maker’s line you have choice... is the term and term plus 4-5-6-7-8 times better sounding than the ares 2? no way... but there IS a difference in SQ no doubt... however subtle it may be
the notion of diminishing returns in SQ from spending $ in audio reproduction has been around as long as the industry... savvy users learn the shape of the curve in each part of the chain, and each of us pick our point on the curve based on desire for performance and size of wallet |
what the market will bear - it is called capitalism!
purely cost based discussions of why things are priced the way they are miss the point unless we are talking pure commodities or perfect competition, neither of which apply in hi fi |
