2. speakers
  3. 1020135455

What is the right thing here................

Thanks for pitching in.

I have been buying, selling, and upgrading for about 2 years now. I have done so with very few issues, although, tough for anyone to say no issues. This deal was not made from AudioGon, but I would like your years of experience as help.

This problem is about ethics, more than anything.

I had a set of B&W 801 Anniversary edition speakers.
Great physical shape, with no problems. Used for about a year, I had been running them with a McIntosh MC-352, a Citation Audio 7.1, and until they sold last week, a Jeff Rowland Model 7. They had performed flawlessly the entire time.

I bought them from the original owner, a person (a local dentist) that replaced them with Wilson Slams.

Anyway, he informed me that he had to have the dealer replace a sub driver when one blew in 1994/5. No problem, I suppose that happens, althought I have not experienced this situation.

Someone locally wanted to buy the speakers, and I told them to come look, and listen. He refused to make the drive (an hour, tops) from San Jose to Orinda, DOT. He didn't have a car, then the car he did have was broken down, then he didn't have time, etc. Since I didn't want to lift them by myself, I would not deliver them, which for something lighter, I would no problem. An hour seemed like nothing to insure your $2,500 investment, right?

He wanted me to have a company ship them, so I did. They picked them up, and drove them to SJ. Like any other transaction, I was prepaid, $2,500. Fair for the speakers, with stands, both in great shape.

He called me the NEXT day and told me the speakers were blown, the subs. He said it was blown and there was no way for me to know, it was so minor and that he pushed it over the edge, or some garbage like this. He has a Krell KAS amp (a large amp he explained). When he removed the drivers, he said one was not even the matching driver. I had the grills on the entire time, and have NEVER had a problem with the drivers at all.

The speakers worked fine for a year here, and they worked when he got them. Granted, the different driver thing seems wrong, but, the question is this:

He has asked me to either cover the cost of new drivers or return the speakers for a full refund.

I know what my thoughts are, what are yours?

Trying to be the honest individual I am,
Dan
porschecab

Showing 6 responses by bbtuna

bbtuna
96 posts
 
problem with Pops idea, and several others, is that the seller ends up getting a pair of speakers back that have fried drivers which is NOT the condition he sent them in. Why should the seller take this hit, it just isn't right; high road or no. Compromise a little to be big but don't eat a bad persons problem, they will never learn the lesson of consequence for action.

cd
bbtuna
96 posts
 
The likelihood of both drivers blowing at the same time-frame as a result of driver failure is probably incalculable. You sent them working…end of discussion! This is clearly a user error or one of the truly unique happenings in our lifetime...in the universe.

On the changed driver…did you hide that it was changed? If not you owe him nothing unless you tried to say that everything was “original”. I mean you probably should proactively reveal something like that but technically it doesn’t make you liable for anything unless you mislead him. Was it an authorized change by B&W? If so, I wouldn’t feel guilty about it. Did it ever sound sonically off to you? Probably not so again, don’t feel guilty.

If on the other hand, you feel guilty because you think you should have proactively revealed the change, then offer to pay for 1 driver…$300 (half the pair price) and make sure you get something in writing (email) from the buyer that this settles your account. Be clear that you are offering to pay because you feel responsible for the driver difference NOT because they went bad. Even if you talk on the phone, say it again in email and save your email coorespondence.

If you don’t feel guilty but just want to be a good guy then offer ½ or ½.

If you decide to visit (which I don't think is needed) call and show up as soon after telling him as possible. In other words, call, ask, drive and see him in an hour. I might even take a change and not call until i was in town.

Just some thoughts...good luck.

cd
bbtuna
96 posts
 
I like the bill of sale idea, I will have to take that into consideration for the future. This is good for both parties since you know when the deal begins and ends. Even if you are not selling, it would be a good idea. Porshecab should probably do the same to close this deal out either way he goes so he has proof of a closed deal.

cd
bbtuna
96 posts
 
it doesn't matter why how they were blown, just that they were NOT blown at the sellers house. this is a buyer issue
bbtuna
96 posts
 
the drivers were good when they left Porshecab's house. They were not damaged in shipment or there would be a shipping claim. They must have worked long enough at the other end for the buyer to note they went from working to blown. This is a buyer issue not a seller issue. He did something to blow them... too much power, too little power, bad ohm match, or distortion...anyway you add it up the buyer blew the drivers not the seller. the seller owes the buyer NOTHING.

The fact that one driver wasn't matched is irrelevant to the blown driver issue. The different drivers certainly did not contribute to the issue. The driver was changed by an authorized dealer...the fact that it is not a match is irrelevant again because the authorized dealer brought them back to spec. Now we picky philes feel everything should be just so but Porshecab sold in good faith and owes the buyer NOTHING.

An extremely generous offer is to pay for 1 driver or 1/2 of 1 driver. Really I don't think Porshecab owes him anything and the guy is trying to make something out of nothing because he knows he screwed himself when he blew the drivers on the used speakers he just bought.

cd
bbtuna
96 posts
 
they were working when they left Porshecab's house. He no longer owns the speakers, what the new owner does/did with them is his business. I am not going to call Porshecab up if my driver(s) are blown. Why? Because I own them not Proshecab. What if the same thing happened but it was six months later, we would all say tough luck for the buyer right? How about if it was 3 months later, 1 month, 3 weeks, 1 week, 1 day? How long does it take a nincompoop to blow a driver(s) anyway? NO, NO, NO Porshecab sent a working product, the new owner needs to figure out what “he” wants to do with "his" new speakers “he” damaged. I will tell you what, if he contacts me, I am not paying to repair the damage “he” inflicted.

Similar situation: I borrowed an Arcam integrated and cd player (both 7s) from a dealer friend to audition with someone. I took them unboxed (dah) and when I was getting them back I dropped them and cracked the top left corner of both machines. Who should pay for that? Who did the damage? Me! So I bought them because I damaged them.

Now if a dealer sells (new or used) and there was a warranty then I would expect the seller/dealer to make the situation right. Now maybe I am mistaken but sales made here on Agon are final when the equipment is used. We don’t have to warranty any of the equipment when it reaches the buyers place, correct? Unless there is some transferable remaining warranty and even then the problem would be taken to the manufacturer not the seller. As consumers, we do not represent the manufacture like a dealer does, so once a sale is made, it is up to the buyer to take responsibility for their future.

Could you imagine this same thing with used car sales. If the engine was fine when delivered to the new buyer but a week later the buyer comes back and says the engine is blown...well you knew it was in good shape when it left you so the buyer must have drained the oil and forgot to put new oil in the car (or some such abuse), soooo blown engine. The buyer discovers it was not the original engine...so what?

No, Porshecab is free from liability (not a lawyer) and has no responsibility except to his own conscience.

cd
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