What is the "best" cartridge a Technics 1210...


can handle when equipped with the more popular KAB mods(damper, rewire, power supply)? I am not an audiophile, and have really enjoyed the modestly priced Denon 110 on my player, but would still be interested to know what the possibilities are-Cheers
jmoog08

Showing 14 responses by chakster

First you have to convert Denon’s (DL-301 MK2) compliance from 100Hz (Japanese only system) to 10Hz (Western world system):

Compliance of your Denon is 13x 10-6cm/dyne @ 100 Hz
You have to multiply it roughly on 1,7 to find out what is the real compliance of your cartridge @ 10 Hz

13 x 1.7 = 22,1 cu - this is real compliance of your cartridge.

Then you have to count not only effective mass of the tonearm + headshel (which is 12g as you said), but the mass of the cartridge itself (which is 6g). You have to count in the lead wires weight and screws/nuts weight too.

Then USE THIS ortofon diagram to calculate resonance frequency.

You can also use Hi-Fi Test LP to calculate resonance frequensy by playin this record with your actual cartridge/tonearm.

As you can see the resonant frequency with stock headshell and your Denon will be around 8Hz (roughly). Resonance frequency within 7-12Hz is optimal for the system! Technics stock headshell is a good one if you have already replaced stock headshell lead wires. Before upgrading the stock shell you have to completely rewire your technics with Discovery Tonearm Wire (internally) and with external RCA phono cable of your choise. 

I think you need lighter headshell, not heavier if you are so concerned about resonance frequency with this tonearm/cartridge combo. Or you can simply ignore this theoretical point of view if you play flat (not warped) records with heavier headshell.

P.S. I have 8.4g DENON headshell for sale here. You can also try the Orsonic lightweight headshell.






@lordvampire
Discovery Tonearm Cable is great and not so expensive, for Technics tonearm you need 25cm, but it’s not easy to find, this cable is 4 wire (4 colour) is sold by the foot. You can buy from partsconnexion.com in Canada. I don’t know any other seller who can provide it. Discovery wire is more flexible than Cardas Tonearm Wire, which is widely available and a bit cheaper, but also good option for resonable price. If you want Cardas buy it from thebetteraudiocompany on ebay, they can also custom made headshell lead wires with pins for you from the same Cardas cable. My pair of 1210mk2 rewired with Cardas internally, but my external RCA phono cable is Zu Audio Mission. The 1210mk is not my main turntable, but it was fully upgraded long time ago, before i bought Sp10mk2.

I just ordered Discovery tonearm wire for my Lustre GST-801 tonearm as i wanted something better than Cardas. Another option is Audio Note silver tonearm wire, but this is very expensive.

Personally i don’t care about resonance frequency anymore: 8Hz or 10Hz or 11Hz it doesn’t really matter and anything from 7 to 12Hz is fine, you will not hear the difference!

Most of the MC cartridges are low or mid compliance, while the MM can be mid, high or very high compliance. Your technics was designed for MM cartridges, but mid compliance MC are OK to use too.

Headshell and screws should be non magnetic - that’s all.

The weight of the shell depends on the compliance of the cartridge, the lower the compliance the heavier headshell required on this arm. But when it’s too heavy it will be impossible to balance the tonearm even with small additional counterweight. This tonearm is not designed for heavy cartridge/headshell combination!

I don’t think you are hearing the power supply, the lower the signal on your MC the better shielded phono cable you need. In real life you will never use maximum gain. This is not a high-end turntable anyway, especially with MC cartridge, try it with MM instead for noise problem. I can’t remember any noise problems with MMs i’ve tried on my 1210mk2. I would never invest money for external power supply for this deck, it’s much better to buy another turntable if you want to know what technics is all about (try SP10mk2 with EPA-100 tonearm).

Look for SAEC SS-300 matt - this is the best!





I wouldn’t change the rubber mat until you have a cartridge that works fine for you. The reviews means nothing for me, the quality of SAEC SS-300 is better than anything else on earth, especislly the overpriced new toys. If you are looking for new stuff then Boston Audio Mat 2 is another option.

Denon DL-103 is the worst choise for your tonearm, it’s been said so many times here, for this low compliance heavy monster you need at least Jelco tonearm.

Your tonearm is for mid compliance MM cartridges or mid compliance MC.

Technics own vintage MM cartridges works fine with this tonearm, headshell integrated versions like epc-100c mk3 or 205c mk4. If you want warmer carts try MF (moving flux) Glanz MF31 - 51 - 71 and Astatic MF100 - 200 cartridges, they are very good too. Garrott P77 is great, Grace F9-U and F-9F are amazing. Pioneer PC-1000 mk2 is outstanding. Those cartridges are better than more expensive MCs and i have tested them all on sl1210mk2 in the headphones before switched to my reference tonearms and turntables.

Those Denons are just cheap and easy to buy new, many people use them for this reason. It’s not so easy to find top vintage MM cartridges, but when you got them in perfect condition you don’t need an MC, because there is nothing to lose if you load your MM at 100k ohms instead of standard 47k. Read Raul’s MM thread here (tons of information from the best audiogon contributors)!
The wire kit you’re talking about is in fact this cardas litz 33 awg cable http://www.ebay.com/itm/400731159612 But you need two of this for stereo (single run for each channel).

And for internal tonearm wire this single run (500mm piece) is long enough for two turntables (two tonearms): http://www.ebay.com/itm/302220538153

If you can do the soldering yourself all you need is two RCA connectors to make your own cable using those Cardas 33 awg lits configuration.

Or buy the kit someone else made for you (maybe for higher price).

P.S. I think for internal wiring Discovery Cable is better as it’s more flexible. Discovery tonearm wire used in Tri-Planar and Graham high-end tonearms.


BTW i got a pair of those KAB dampers for a long time, the silicon fluid bath is open and collect dust all the time, i think it's better to replace the tonearm for something better to fill the silicon inside (like on jelco). This open silicon bath is not cool. 
Sure, but Discovery Tonearm Wire from here if you have to rewire just 1 tonearm. Their price is $24 per foot (for 4 colored tonearm wires) + shipping from Canada.

You're right about the bearings of 1210, i got mine since 1996 and they are still works fine (absolutely no problem with bearings), but fluid damper is good option for high compliance cartridges, i just don't like the KAB fluid damper design, cos it's collect dust everyday. honestly when it comes to serious investment it's just better to buy Technics SP10mk2 and EPA-100 tonearm (what i did).   

I think Spencer ( sbank ) meant the DL-103, not 301 
Shipping from Canada to Europe is about $10, i already requested the shipping price from them. 

It's the same cable on ebay from UK, yes. 



Isonoe designed them for professional use, when you play records near powefull sound system with 20 000 watts for example. The bass feedback is the weakest point of the technics sl1200mk2 in this situation. Replacing the stock feets people can get rid of this problem completely, so these isonoe feets are amazing. If you are listening with headphones maybe yoy don't need them, but even for design purpose isonoe feets are the best, i use silver isonoe feets on my sl1210mk2 mods. Isonoe feets are fully adjustable and very well enginered, so you can level the turntable properly and get rid of any feedback/vibrations etc. I have not seen any other feets that even looks good, most of the others are ugly. I did not pain full price for them, bought new on ebay with discount. At that time my cartridge on upgraded sl1210mk2 was Technics EPC-205c MK4. I'm pretty sure you will be happy with isonoe even at home use only. This is top quality product! 
Nice, I got rewired (internally) my rare Lustere GST-801 tonearm today with Discovery Wire and Cardas male 5 pin DIN connector. My ex flatmate did the soldering nicely. 4 years ago he got started with technics sl1200mk2 rewiring for himself and then for most of our friends, now his skills are very very good.

I think for the first time you’d better ask someone (experienced) to do that for you and you can watch and learn, i’m sure then you can do it yourself.

My advice is to bypass the "motherboard" when you will have to soldering tonearm wires to the phono cable. There must be a motherboard, but just to fix the cables on it, the stripped ends of the cables should be directly soldered (tonearm wires directly to phono cable) without shite "motherboard" in between like a connector (avoid the "motherboard" if you don’t want signal degradation).
@lordvampire Grace HS-3 is lightweight shell if you want classic japanese vintage headshell, better one is Grace HS-5 carbon headshell with treated holes for the screws in the finger lift of the shell - that’s nice option to screw the cart from the bottom, not from the top of the shell (no nuts needed in this case). You can also look for the Orsonic AV1 shell (it looks like a catamaran boat :)

For the ultimate, but very expensive, look for the new ZYX LIVE-18B from Nakatsuka-San, i use this one with my Glanz MF61 cartridge. 
No i don't use twisted pairs in my Lustre GST-801 tonearm for maximum flexibility. I use 4 single run of discovery tonearm wire. You can do the same for your Technics, but twisted wires also works ok, discovery wire is flexible, but not the most flexible.  
I'm fine with stock PSU and stock matt on those decks, i just stopped all the mods of 1210mk2 after full rewire, isonoe feets, fluid damper and various top of the line vintage MM cartridges like Technics EPC-205c mk4, 100c mk3, Glanz MF61, Grace F-9F, Grado etc.

If you want to mod PSU then your next step would be a tonearm.

.. and then a new turntable because of the plinth :)   
Never had any problems with MC on SL1210mk2, my last MC cartridge tested on that deck was Audio-Technica ART2000, i think i even tried Zyx Airy, but at that time i had much better turntable and tonearm. Anyway i have never experienced any noise in whatever part of the record on SL1210mk2