What is the missing element?


My pc audio setup currently is as follows

PC (Lossless audio through Jriver) > V-link (first model) > Rega Dac > Jolida JD1501 > KEF LS50s

The Rega was probably the first component I bought that completely transformed the sound of my system. The difference it made was simply huge.

I then added the v-link to support higher resolution audio through the s/pdif connection. Again, the sound noticeably improved. The soundstage was bigger, and the music just sounded fuller. Without the v-link the music sounds quite a bit smaller through the usb input.

The Kefs were the next big leap forward for my system. I simply cant believe how big a sound these tiny little speakers put out.

Now, originally most of my listening was through the setup listed above. However, the addition of a thorens TD-160 has gotten me into vinyl in a big way and now I really don't like the sound of digital. By comparison it sounds like congested chaos, has a rough texture (especially noticeable in voices)and overall is just very brash sounding. I simply can not stand it at loud volumes. Nothing like the polite orderly smoothness I hear on vinyl which constantly has me turning up the volume.

I had all but completely switched to listening to music on my turntable while the rega was relegated to streaming pandora or youtube as background music and always at low volumes. Then, some time spent with a naim cd player reminded me just how good a digital source can sound. So my question is how can I bridge the gap? I have been reading a lot about jitter and I am wondering if that is holding the rega back. I've read that the v-link measures at right around 400ps while other digital transports like the audiophilleo measure well below 100ps. Would replacing the v-link with an audiophilleo or another s/pdif converter give me the sound I am looking for? Is the problem with the nature of computer audio itself and I should just be looking for a good CD player? I am slowly driving myself crazy over this.
128x128megido

Showing 2 responses by almarg

11-24-13: Cerrot
There is no usb on the planet that has lower jitter than an spdif output-it is impossible. Remember, USB transmits data in packets, not streams, which is why it is so poor. Music should be transmitted in data streams, not packets. The whole USB to spdif converter thing is a sham. They cost anywhere from $200 to $2,000 and none of them do it as good as not doing it at all.

11-26-13: Audioengr
ASYNCHRONOUS [emphasis added] USB on the other hand generates a new master clock and ignores the clock from the computer, therefore the jitter on the USB cable is of no consequence. It is ignored. This is because the Async USB interface is the MASTER and asks the computer for data packets only when needed. These packets are put into a buffer, which is clocked out using the local free-running low-jitter Master Clock.
I usually try to avoid ideological debates about whether one design approach is inherently better or worse than another, because the answer is usually (and perhaps almost always) that it comes down to the quality of the specific implementation, as well as system matching and listener preference.

In this case though, in addition to seconding Steve's comment (which I agree with completely) I want to add that S/PDIF and AES/EBU are "streaming" formats only in the loosest possible sense, and not in any sense that necessarily implies an advantage with respect to jitter.

A true data stream consists of an unbroken string of 1 and 0 data (emphasis on "data," as opposed to other information), usually represented by voltages, and accompanied by a separate clock and other timing signals. S/PDIF and AES/EBU signals are nothing like that. There are subframes, frames, blocks, preambles, status bits, bits used for error detection, etc., etc. And further, all of that is multiplexed (combined) with timing information (i.e., the clock) via something called differential Manchester or biphase mark encoding, which allows clock and data to be combined into a single signal.

The receiving component has to sort all of that out, extracting the clock from that single signal, and processing both the data and the non-data information appropriately. And, particularly if the source component is a computer, it will have to do all of that in the presence of what will inevitably be a good deal of jitter-inducing digital noise.

While there are design approaches that are used in SOME DACs that are largely immune to jitter when receiving S/PDIF or AES/EBU signals, such as ASRC (Asynchronous Sample Rate Conversion), those approaches arguably have some significant downsides. Packetized protocols, on the other hand, inherently utilize a clock for the DAC chip itself (which is the place where jitter matters) that is different than the clock that is used to communicate the data between components. There are no downsides to that approach that I can conceive of, other than quality of implementation.

Regards,
-- Al
11-26-13: Zd542
Does anyone know if jitter can be introduced in the recording process? If so, is there a way to deal with it?
Good question. The answer to the first question is yes, in the sense that the amount of jitter introduced in the recording process will not be exactly zero, to an infinite number of decimal places. I don't have any particular knowledge, though, as to how likely it is to be great enough to be audibly significant, with modern recording equipment.

Just as jitter in the playback process is produced by small rapid fluctuations in the timing of the clock that is supplied to the D/A converter chip(s), jitter in the recording process will be produced by small rapid fluctuations in the timing of the clock that is supplied to the A/D converter chip(s).

Since the A/D converter function and generation of the clock signal that is supplied to it can be performed within the same component, however, I would suspect that a GOOD design would result in the introduction of minimal and perhaps negligible amounts of jitter during the recording process.
If so, is there a way to deal with it?
Nope, aside from the possibility that it may be masked by, or even be complementary to, sonic issues in the playback system. How perceivable and how objectionable it may be, if it were to have any significance at all, would be dependent on the sonic quality and the sonic character of the playback system.

Best regards,
-- Al