What is the fascination?


I have to ask what is the fascination with these older turntables?  I recently listened to an older SP 10 MKII with a Jelco and Older SME arm with Koetsu and Stanton cartridges.  The sound was very good I will admit but I cannot say it was better than the 1200G or even a 1200GR for that matter.  Heck even the Rega RP 8 is really an amazing sounding turntable for the money and they are brand new.   These tables are coming up on 40 plus years old.  One forum contributor said a turntable should not have any sound at all.  I agree and the newer tables get closer to that "no sound" than many of these colored (smooth,  warm) sounding turntables   I recently purchased a Pickering ESV 3000 MM cartridge that arrived in the mail yesterday and I had to ask myself, "what am I doing?"  So with that being said, why the fascination?  If one want to change the sound of the table, start with the cartridge, they all do sound different.  Nowadays the tables and arms are so good and engineered based on the earlier designs and bettered.  Also, when you buy say an older used arm, how do you know its been cared for?  Arms bearings can be screwed up pretty bad when one tries to tighten cartridges with the headshell attached to the tonearm or the tonearm mounted on the table and many people do not even know they are destroying their arms bearings so I mean you really have to know who you are getting the arm from and check the bearings etc.  There is a lot of risk with turntables, much more than with any components because of so many moving parts that do get old and break.  Why the fascination? 
tzh21y

Showing 6 responses by chakster

I recently listened to an older SP 10 MKII with a Jelco and Older SME arm with Koetsu and Stanton cartridges.

Why these arms ? SP-10mkII is great turntable, but it must be 10.5 or 12 inch tonearms, at least you have to hear Technics EPA series (the best ois EPA-100 mkII) on it with some MM carts. The problem with new Technics SL1200 series is that you can not use most of the 10.5 or 12 tonearms on it.

I recently purchased a Pickering ESV 3000 MM cartridge that arrived in the mail yesterday and I had to ask myself, "what am I doing?"

Do you like it? How much ytou paid if its not a secret ? If you like the sound i’m sure Stanton SC-100 WOS will blown you away compared to Pickering, but for a low budget under 350 usd Pickering XSV3000 is great. Try to load your stanton at 100k Ohm instead of 47k Ohm.

@cleeds

But buying a used pickup arm or phono cartridge is something I’d never consider

You must a be a rich guy if you’re buyin’ new cartridges everytime you want to experiment with different cart or tonearm. If you never tried vintage carts or arms then your experience is very limited. But i believe you may tried them long time ago if you were active back in the 80s ? Anyway even for people like you sellers offering a NOS vintage goods, never used. At the same time ebay buyers protection is always on the buyers side and return for a full refund including shipping is not a problem if a buyer is not happy about used goods for whatever reason.

The fascination comes when a used vintage $1000 cartridge is better than new $5000 cartridge, same about turntables and tonearms. Personally i want to try 5 different vintage carts for $1k each instead of one new cart for $5k. Experience is much more inportant if you know what you're buyin' used and why (imo).  
@cleeds 

I was an active audiophile in the ’80s, and the ’70s, too. Now as then, I’m not really interested in experimenting with phono cartridges and pickup arms. 

Understood. For younger people like me it's the only way to try vintage gear produced in the golden era, i am totally happy with vintage stuff compared to some new stuff that i have too. 


I’m glad not everyone feels the same way, though. I sold my previous arm (Fidelity Research FR-64fx) to a buddy who still uses it. It sounds as great as ever.

Great tonearm, this is what i'm using now with my FR-7fz 

I have not listened to the Pickering yet.  It just sort of hit me in a way when I received it that you really are taking a serious risk with some of this stuff.

Remember Raul who own 100+ vintage cartridges and still fascinated about them. There is a very little risk, especially if you're buyin them from a fellow collectors, not from the professional sellers. 

I'll tell you that i've had more problems with brand new cartridges and electronics than with a vintage ones.  
@tzh21y 

just installed the pickering ESV 3000 today on the 1200G.  All I can say is wow.  I am impressed  

Good to know, Stanton/Pickering upper models are really great, if you like Pickering XSV-3000 (a brother of Stanton 881s) then you can upgrade to the Pickering 7500 or Stanton 981 series. But my favorite is Stanton SC-100 WOS. My minty XSV3000 looking for a new home.    
Definitely, my analogy about $1000 MM over the $5000 MC is a personal experience with the best vintage MM and some of the best modern MC. We don't have to pay that much to enjoy the music. Some of the vintage MM are much more involving and less problematic with phono stages than modern MC carts. 
My Red 3P "12 Cocobolo works fine with all vintage cartridges, especially the Garrott p77i. It's amazing tonearm for sure, but i love top vintage tonearms on the same level, definitely not from the 50s era, but from the 70s/80s