What is the appeal of the Denon 103 cartridges?

I think many owners of the super expensive turntable can actually find/use reasonably priced cartridges instead of the multi-thousand dollar items promoted in high-end community by the manufacturers and reviewers. 

The problem is that most of them (unlike Denon) have been discontinued in the 80's, but Denon is still in production since the late 60's and the price is very low. 

Some other amazing cartridges from the 70s/80s era are rare and not easy to find for majority of audiophiles that also don't like to take a risk of buying used vintage cartridges, so the Denon for them is a chance to use a vintage cartridge made today for under $300. 

For others it is a business to offer their tweaks/mods for the same cheap cartridge to make it actually expensive (like Zu versions) and a little bit better. Or those companies that can offer same Denon with exotic cantilevers (instead of cheap aluminum) and better profiles. Almost everyone agree that tweaked is much better than the original, so i believe the result of different body, different stylus, different cantilever is a proof that original Denon is nothing special.  

Another example is Ortofon SPU, but the company produce so many versions by themselves instead of giving that option to others. 

Both are classic, old school low compliance monsters for heavy tonearms, originally designed for radio broadcast (like Denon). 

What i don't understand is the reason to invest in cheap Denon for all that special tweaks if man more (much better cartridges) available in its original form with superior cantilevers, diamonds and overall superior sound without any tweaks (just like designers made them from the start). Even some other old low compliance monsters with aluminum cantilevers are much better than Denon , for example Fidelity-Research FR-7f and fz. Also some MM/MI cartridges are better than Denon 103 at the same price category. 

But the Denon and Ortofon have a reputation, some others from the 70s era are just unknown for majority of people today, because they are rare.

Anyway for the price of $250 for 103 it is easy to try without big loss. 

But my advice is to learn a bit more about Conical stylus profile utilized in Denon, because this is the worst profile ever.   



 

The predecessor of DL-103 MC was DL-107 MM designed for NHK broadcast. I bought NOS for about $250 and it was also impressive, but only until i bought much better cartridges for a little higher price.

When someone telling me this is "real music not a high-end" it is always sounds like "yeah i want to hear real music and to be closer to the soul of music". Unfortunately it has nothing to do with reality. I believe the rolled-off sound of Denon and its conical tip can be ok in some super high resolution (or harsh) horn based speakers or something like that, when the owner trying to avoid high resolution cartridges because of some personal preferences (to get rid of detailed airy highs and deep bass etc).

It’s like telling people to stick to the 78rpm and a gramophone, for some of them this is the heart of music, not a high-end. Not for me.

I bought conical Ortofon SPU because i expected i will get something special, i already had a very expensive modern high-end cartridge at that time in my ex tube based system and full range high efficient speakers from Zu Audio (upgraded Druid mk4).

I was very disappointed in sound of Ortofon SPU with conical tip. Compared to my ex ZYX Premium 4D it was such a downgrade and i could not stand it, it was extremely boring to listen any old record with Ortofon SPU, but i expected it could be better (no it’s not better).

Ortofon is better and more expensive cartridge than Denon, but still nothing special. I’ve been using them on Thomas Schick tonearm designed for those cartridges and a phono stage for MC with bult-in SUTs. Later i tried to return to the SPU and discovered Royal G mkII with Replicant 100 stylus - this was the best SPU i have ever heard. Prior to that i tried SPU Spirit (limited edition) and it was also so much better than conical SPU.

I think my ex Denons and Ortofons are on the lower side while the ZYX is definitely on the higher side in everything including the astronomical price.

But after years of my own research i prefer something in the middle and when we’re talking about low compliance MC cartridges at moderate price there are many of them in $500-1000 range, all of them are from the 70’s era. I think this is where the musicality really is, but with correct reproduction due to many advantages in cartridge design, better cantilever and superb stylus tip.

The superiority of Denon 103 or 103r is the biggest myth in audio (imo).
They are so easy to find new and this is the reason people are talking about it.

P.S. My favorite low compliance LOMC cartridges are: Miyajima Kansui, Miyabi MCA and Miyabi Standard, Fidelity-Research FR-7fz i also enjoyed Klipsch MCZ-10 Ruby and Victor MC-L10 just to name a few.

Actually, i have had many LOMC cartridges that disappointed me, but fascinated some other people for some reason. So we’re all different and it’s a matter of taste and sometime a lack of experience with something special.

On MM/MI side you know my preferences: AT-ML180 OCC, Grado Signature XTZ, Grave LEVEL II, Grace F14, Garrott p77, Glanz MFG-61, Victor X-1II and many others.

I think each cartridge must be good or bad in its original form, each time someone changing a cantilever from one to another the result is a different cartridge and the sound is not as expected by the designer of the original cartridge. Some people think they are always smarter than cartridge designers or they think their re-tippers are smarter than people who actually design cartridges. The problem is that a cartridge is not good enough, simply not the best model or does not sound as expected. 

Many cartridge designers explained why it can be a disaster, refirbishing is very bad idea for almost any high class cartridge. For a low class cartridge it can work, but If a cartridge is not good then it can be replaced by a much better cartridge, no need for frankenstein that retippers are offering. 

Stick to the original cartridge and if you don't like it buy another original cartridge. This process can take entire life, because hundreds of great cartridges are on the market (lomc, mm, mi, moving flux, strain gauge etc) and you never know what you like until you will buy it! Some carts like IKEDA or Decca does not have a cantilever at all. 

  

Don’t under-estimate a Grado Black or Green either.

Comparing cheap Grado Black (or Green) to expensive Grado Signature XTZ anyone can understand why the cantilever and stylus profile make so much difference in sound. The difference between lower and upper range of Grado cartridges is huge. When a cartridge designer is making his top model it must be (and it really is) superior to the entry level models. But those models looks almost identical and even styli are interchangeable.

For the same reason anyone who paid a lot for an expensive cantilever (to replace Denon stock DL-103 cantilever and stylus tip) are all claimed the upgrade in sound quality is obvious.

Don’t forget that Joseph Grado invented first Stereo MC cartridge and patented it. But he’s making an MI cartridges simply because they are better almost in every aspect. His top Signature XTZ was $750 in the 80's. 

Also maybe unfair to describe Denon 103 and 103 R stylus as simply conical. It is special Denon cut diamond - described as naked square cut. Under microscope it looks like it has been cut to a pyramid with the sharp apex of the pyramid being slightly rounded to sit in the record grooves. Conical diamonds look different under microscope, more rounded and much blunter.

Not sure what you’re looking at, but according to the Denon specs it is 16.5 μm diamond spherical tip = conical.

Yes, it is nude and very well polished

If you want to look at the proper diamonds then check this.
This is what the most important.

If you think the Denon is a bit closer to Elliptical (while everywhere in documentation it is still described as Conical, not Elliptical) then i want to remind that Elliptical profile is also nothing special and can’t compete with accuracy and life span of the Shibata, LineContact, MicroLine, Micro Ridge, Stereohedron, Replicant-100, Gyger and VdH.

Compared to all of them an Elliptical tip is just an entry level (Conical is the worst).

Denon 103 was invented in 1968, before some of the best profiles appeared on the market.

At that time all carts were Conical/Spherical, not even Elliptical as far as i know.

Quadraphonic records and Shibata profile changed everything, but it was in the 70’s, not in the 60’s.

A high compliance MM cartridges changed everything in the industry in the 70’s.

And you will never find any audiophile cartridge even with elliptical profile today. All the best carts comes with best profiles, not with the worst profiles.

Your Denon 103 today is just like the Denon from 1968, same stylus profile. This is oldschool cartridge.

But Denon designed much better cartridges with different styli, those carts are better than DL-103, but you can only buy them used or NOS, so people prefer not to talk about it, ignoring the fact that Denon made much better cartridges than earlier DL-103 which is probably the best seller. Remember DL-S1 or DL1000 ? 

But again, some people still listening to 78rpm on gramophones and enjoying it too.

Chakster DHT tubes go back to at least the 30’s transformers even further. I am guessing you are not a musician who has played in bands and orchestra’s.

@tomwh

Right, i am not a musician, but i have a piano on the left of my system and i can compare the sound coming from my real piano to the sound coming from recorded piano in my system. My system has tremendous dynamics (with 101db high efficient full range drivers). I’ve been there with very rare NOS tubes, and when i completely removed all the tube gear from my system it became superior with First Watt and Pass Labs amplification. Here is the latest image of my system. However, i must say i do not swap gear as much as i swap cartridges and tonearms.

Tubes are nice to look at, some killer First Watt amps does not looks so attractive as this system i put together for a friend or as good as my ex system. But everybody knows that First Watt amps are very special and each of his amp is unique, i am using current-source F2J for crossover-less speakers (full range drivers). All the rarest telefunken military 60s tubes in my ex triod push-pull amp blown away by First Wass F2J. I do love to experiment with better tubes with and some single ended tube arms if someone will give me $10k just for fun, the First Watt gear is cheaper and better, more convenient in the modern world, the sound and resolution is fantastic, if i will ever buy another amp it will be another First Watt, probably SIT-2 or something like that.

In regards to your total discuss for denon 103’s my question is how many arms did you try. How many step up trans and loads did you try??? How many phono pre amps??? Etc...

Way too many that i can even sell a half of them. For my favorite low compliance cartridges as the moment i have Ikeda IT-345, FR64s with B60, FR-64fx with n-60. I have enough SUTs, Headamps, Phono Stages, Turntables, Tonearms to properly match my cartridges, i tried over 50 samples in the last 5 years or so. I want to tell you that i love vintage cartridges, but not Denon 103 or 107 and not the similar conical SPU, because they are inferior to almost everything i have tried and i explained why. I have also mentioned my some of my favorite cartridges in earlier posts here and if you like to hear something special i will tell you just one that will blown away almost everything: Fidelity-Research FR-7fz from the 80’s (also low compliance monster, so it can be used on those heavy tonearms where you can use Denon 103). Last night i’ve been listening music with FR-7fz connected for the first time to my new 47 Labs Phonocube (also current injection phono stage) and i was blown away, it was better that all the SUTs and Phonostages i have been using before.

Maybe when i tried my SPU and Denon my system was not as good as today, but it was a great system anyway, i have much better cartridges today and i just don’t understand all the hype about Denon 103. it can be a good cheap cartridge, but even with the money people spending of DL-103 i would buy superior MM/MI cartridge instead. Some people are too lazy to learn and to try something different. Only comparing one cartridge to another we can say something about each of them.

I bet my 16 inch silicone damped Brazillian rosewood arm with my 103 / 103r/ 103 wood / alum body etc... On a 50 pound platter with a 3 phase 50 watt motor / controller, does not sound like a 78 on a gramophone.

I hope so, but the cartridge design significantly improved during the 70’s/80’s era, no doubt. I think i explained why? So if you like vintage sound you will find the best in this era, not in the 60’s when it comes to phono cartridges. I agree that old tubes are great, but cartridge is different. Learning a lot about cartridge design i do not see any single reason for use a Conical tip unless you like rolled-off sound.

The stock Denon is not calibrated for perfect channel balance, for this reason Zu Audio calibrate them to select and sell the best samples with perfect balance.

Re-tipping make no sense, because a brand new cartridge cost less than re-tip alone. 

At higher price better vintage MC cartridges available with better styli and better cantilevers, as a result much better sound. Investment in Denon make no sense for this reason, refurbishing make no sense too. Some people just love to mess around with them, in the end the overall price is way over some other nice MC cartridges that does not require any mods at all.