OOPS!!! I literally ment to type "Mr. Fremer" and not Framer. That was autocorrect and it did it again when I was trying to post this retraction but I caught it this time.
No disrespect intended, I generally enjoy Mr. Fremers reviews and I certainly appreciate what he does for the world of vinyl. I also enjoy getting to hear his Caliburn on the YouTube vids he posts. |
I own the Sl1200 GAE and an Artisan Fidelity SP10 Mk3 NG and I can say that the new table sounds awesome and it does not cog.
I ran my table at 78 rpm for about 200 hours to seat the bearing. This makes a big difference. I think it was an incredible value and cheap at $4k. Just look at what the other companies are charging for tables direct or belt that have nothing like the technology or build quality of the GAE. |
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All direct drives do not cog. Any non-coreless motor can cog, including belt drive tables. Also, because a belt drive is usually turning at 300rpm, multiple resonance modes are being induced into the platter. Now, I'll admit that I have yet to hear a belt drive that I like as I prefer idlers and direct drive table. I can always hear the motors in belt drive tables from several feet away at 33.3 rpm, including one very nice $40k belt drive table I have recently evaluated. I was shocked that I could hear the very very heavy motor as it spun. I can not hear my GAE or SP10 mk3 motors at 33.3 rpm even with my ear on the plinth.
The belt drives have their place I am sure but for me they simply lack drive/force, a sense of power if you will. Idlers and directs have this attribute which I am partial to.
Better direct drive including the SL1200 Mk2 also do not "hunt and seek" as Mr. Framer and others have alleged in times past. That is why it is call a Quartz -Lock. It locks to speed and adjusts when a load change is detected. All one has to do is scope (O'scope) the table and look at the resultant wave-form. Cheap tables may exhibit that undesirable behavior but even the SL1200 MK X did not behave in that manner.
Now, having made my thoughts public, I have nothing against belt drive tables other than the fact that I've never heard one that I prefer over a direct or idler. Never heard a Caliburn :)
Just wanted to comment on some things I see posted over and over and which I know to be in error. |
Also note that this table is software driven and also has two sensors designed to detect and defeat any type of motor related vibrartory issues. This table uses an incredibly complex CPU and software stack to perform its duties. I can tell you FIRST HAND as an actual owner/user that this thing has the rotational smoothness and continuousness of my MK3. In other words THEY NAILED IT!!!
And why not, the designer of this table uses a SP10 MK3 as his personal reference. |
The mods are nothing more than a switch from a SMPS to a linear PS and a tone arm swap. I personally would not swap the arm for a SME even if I felt like it needed to be swapped. I feel the arm is more than capable and that's after listening to my Kuzma 4 Point/Anna on my Mk3 right behind my GAE.
This mod will have nothing and I mean nothing to do with cogging as this motor has no iron core and thus no magnetic hysteresis regardless of TimeSteps marketing. They also state that it takes a "haze" away from the table. If you want to sharpen the sound of the table, lose the stock rubber mat and replace the feet with "TrackAudio" feet or something non-springy. I have mine on inexpensive wooden blocks for now and I find it to sound less lush but tighter and more accurate overall.
Now, as a person who hates SMPS I will admit that a linear supply would be desirable to me ONLY because I don't like how SMPS's (regardless of the product) affect my systems sound. I usually go so far as to unplug my plasma tv, routers, hard drives..,etc when doing serious listening.
This is an easy mod to perform, I could easily open the unit and solder 2 wires to the circuit board and connect to one of my variable linear regulated lab power supplies which can supply up to 25 amps.
I do this with some of my iFi gear.
This ain't rocket science. |
Free upgrade for your SL1200 G/GAE :)
Now that I have some miles on my table and I am familiar enough with its various traits I decided to experiment with the Auto/Manual Torque setting. It comes from the factory set to A (auto). It sounds excellent but the sustain/decay are not quite there with my Mk3. Well, was I surprised when I placed it in M (manual) mode and started experimenting with various torque settings via the potentiometer under the platter (accessible with the platter in place). My ears tell me that somewhere south of the mid point (I have mine set to 1/5 maximum torque) sounds best.
I find it more languid (not lazy) and relaxed sounding than auto mode or when the torque is cranked up in manual mode. To make sure I wasn't losing anything in the areas of slam and dynamics or bass I listened intently to Dexter Gordon's "Tanya" on the album One Flight Up. There was no loss of any of the aforementioned attributes.
It is vocals where I here the largest benefit.
The table is even better than I thought it was. I believe the Stereophile pre-review mentioned a slightly disminished sustain, trust me, adjusting the torque profile will give it to you and then some.
Would love to hear some of your thoughts if you decide to experiment :)
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Typo correction: "saturation" |
Andysf:
The fact that lowering the torque made such a profound difference caught me of guard a bit. My Mk3 has 16Kg-cm starting torque (what it is nominally I haven't a clue). I calculate that I have my GAE operating between 1.3 and 1.45 kg-cm of torque. The maximum is 3.3kg-cm. Whereas at max torque in manual or when set to auto the table locks speed in about a 0.3 seconds it now takes about 1.8 seconds to come to speed. YMMV but it is most beneficial in my system :) |
Thanks Andysf.
I looked at that graph, smh. This is a marketing stunt. They have a formula which based on their premise would have all and EVERY 12 pole motor cogging, coreless or with iron. Further they state this is a 12 pole motor when the lead engineer stated it is a 9 pole motor. This is marketing.
You know, I am not a fan of belt drive, guess where you are unlikely to see me wasting my time (or theirs) telling people why I don't like belt drive? On a thread for belt drive tables. Why would I want to be a sower of discord for those who may love their belt driven table.
I feel like I am taking crazy pills. No IRON, no stuturation, no interaction between the flux harmonics in the air gap. The fact that they claim to see the EXACT same result on two completely different types of motors, iron-core based and coreless would immediately cause this engineer to ponder if they are measuring what they think they are measuring. (Charlie Brown yell after he misses the football yet again)
I think this table has some people shaking in ther proverbial boots.
Hey, let's stipulate that is is the worst cogging table extant.., guess what, it is still one of the finest tables I have ever heard and I know a current beautiful $40k belt driven table (which is highly praised and for good reason) that this table would beat in most if not all major categories.
For those that own this table, ignore the noise (pun intended) and enjoy your table, you are among the fortunate few :)
I'm done talking about the nonsense of cogging, I want to engage with people who actually want to enjoy exchanging our experiences with this table and those who earnestly just want to know more about it.
I did some serious listening late last eve (paid for that this morning) and I was amazed at the digital like solidity in the pitch. I mean just flat DEAD-ON, not a quiver but yet with the magic that (at this point in time) it appears only analog can achieve.
Don't get me wrong, I still love my digital, I listen to both regularly. Good digital can be awfully convincing.., until you play superlative analog :) |
I would describe the difference as follows; say you've finally met that nifty girl and your really like her, so you hold her hand tightly. She knows you like her but it is uncomfortable for both of you, so you loosen your grip a bit.
You both feel better and she still knows you like her. Ok, now I am laughing at myself (I need to stop listening and get some sleep). Corny, I know but at the higher torque settings, it just seems that the table is holding on to the music a little to tightly.
Backing the torque off gives the music room to breathe, it really is quite a dramatic change in presentation. |
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My bad, I meant to write that I have it operating at about 0.70 kg-cm. |
A good friend loaned me his Kiseki Purpleheart NS to try on the GAE. To say it was beautiful sounding is an understatement. The arm on the table is wonderful and far better than the its look-alike cousin on the SL1200 and its variants. Note that I am not knocking the arm on the Sl1200mkX as its main issue was the wiring, which can always be replaced.
The GAE immediately showed me the difference between my D103R and the Kiseki. The Denon sounding beautiful on the table if not the most resolving MC but for $380 the 103R is an incredible bargain. I really believe one may need to spend about $2k - $2.5k to significantly beat a properly setup and run-in 103R.
I did compare it to my Anna/4Point combination on the SP10 MK3. I will say that money when one knows what they are doing can buy you a lot more sound. This is not a case of diminishing returns, the latter system bettered it in every way but let's be fair, the arm/cart cost is 4 times the cost of the GAE.
One day when I have the time I will place the Anna on the GAE and then see what's what.
Based on what I heard, I will NOT be changing the arm on my GAE. I will be installing a much higher end cartridge along with acquiring a Myajima Zero (which was one of the main reasons I purchased this wonderful table). |
It should be noted that before I replaced the SMPS in my Mac mini with the regulated linear power supply it was mostly better than my digital and that with a Denon 103R. In all fairness, the phono stage is the fabulous AMR PH77 with a set of Bendix 6900 tubes doing the heavy lifting. |
Forgive my typo please:
I intended to convey that before the upgraded power supply was placed in the man, the GAE presented a better musical experience in the vast majority of the cases unless the LP I was comparing was simply an inferior recording. |
In the original post concerning the power supplies I wrote:
Last evening (out of boredom) I took the SMPS out of my Mac Mini and wired in a regulated SMPS, held my breath and fired it up (probably the wrong term to use when discussing computers :).
That is incorrect, I intended to write:
Last evening (out of boredom) I took the SMPS out of my Mac Mini and wired in a regulated linear power supply, held my breath and fired it up (probably the wrong term to use when discussing computers :).
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Achilles heel:
Is the GAE perfect? The answer is no and I have known it's problem since before it was released. Early in my quest for this table I sent an email to the support department at Panasonic that handles the GAE and inquired as to the type of Power Supply is contains. I feared it would be an SMPS and they confirmed my fears. In this day and age one almost expects these abominations to high end audio. They are cheap to build although some are built much better than others (iFi comes to mind) and they are lite in weight therefore companies reap huge saving not having to ship heavy iron. The catch is that they ALL SUCK and I mean that. They literally pull your audio system down. I will describe what I hear when a SMPS is plugged in anywhere near my system. The roundness and air of the performance evaporate to be replaced with a cold and somewhat hard stridency. In the worst cases it can literally sound like really bad digital (using digital in the pejorative sense).
Whenever I would listen to my SP10 Mk3 I would unplug both the GAE and my Mac Mini. When I would listen to the GAE I would unplug the Mac.., etc..
My GAE is up for (reversible surgery), I am building a linear regulated PS for the unit. The result of the SMPS has nothing to do with cogging. It is directly related to the high frequency hash/noise that SMPS units invariably send back into the mains and interject on the ground thereby infecting your other gear via the ground on your interconnects.
Last evening (out of boredom) I took the SMPS out of my Mac Mini and wired in a regulated SMPS, held my breath and fired it up (probably the wrong term to use when discussing computers :).
I hate to sound like a cliche, but my Mac mini going into an iFi iUSB 3.0 (itself setup and working with a regulated linear 9v lab grade supply) astonished me. It sounded, yes I am going to say it because it's true, like a turntable. Yeah I said it :)
My red book ripped cd's sound like very good hi res recordings and on recordings in which I have the LP and CD (ripped full resolution to the hdd and played back with Pure Music (my choice of playback software for the last 9 years)) the Mac is better. I used Jacintha's Here's to Ben (45rpm), playing "Danny Boy" compared to the ripped CD version on FIM Recordings. The digital was better. Now, I know this is because the SMPS in the GAE brings the overall quality of my whole system down. It will tilt the other way when I install the apparatus for the linear supply.
As stated earlier, I already knew the SMPS would have to go even before I received the unit. My iFi iCan Pro is also being fed with a regulated LPS.
The only passive devices I have found to work really really well in combatting the nasties of SMPS's is Blue Circles line of filters. They work wonders BUT no SMPS's is the best solution.
I even unplug my plasma TV when listening.
The further downstream any device that uses a SMPS is from your system the better.
In the case of the GAE, I knew I would have to do this but still found the table to be an incredible value due to the technology involved and the motor. SMSP's are a fact of life these days, but it is relatively painless to replace them.
Try this, listen to a passage on your system, preferably an intimate uncomplicated vocal track, stop, plug in anything with a SMPS near your stereo. Computer, iPad, cable box anything and listen to the same sample of music again. |
The effective mass for the GAE is 12gm based on my findings in a review on the table. |
aragonx 5:
You are welcome. Concerning the headshell, it will really depend on the compliance of the cartridge you are using. I note that with a Denon 103r which is a lower compliance cartridge my system sounds much better with the 12gram LP Zupreme vs the 7 gram (I weighed them) stock headshell. It will probably sound even better (for the 103r) with the 18 gram AT headshell I'm planning to purchase. You are going to find that this is a seriously accomplished table. Do give the bearings in the arm and spindle along with the tonearm wire ample time to run in. |
