What Is So Special About Harbeth?
SLike probably all of you, I just received notice from Audiogon of a 20% discount on Harbeth XD. I clicked on the tab and found that the sale price is about $2700. I have read so many glowing comments here about Harbeth — as if just saying the name is the password for entering aural nirvana. I admit, I haven’t listened to Harbeth speakers. But looking at these, they just look like smallish bookshelf speakers. I’m not questioning how good others say these speakers are, but HOW do they do it out of an ordinary-looking box?
Is it the wood? Is it the bracing? Is it the crossover components? Is it the cone material? What is the reason why these Harbeth’s are such gems compared to other bookshelf speakers? What is it about the construction or technology that makes these speakers a deal at $2700 on sale versus the $800, 900 or $1,000 that others normally cost? What is the secret that makes audiophiles thrill to get such a costly bargain?
you are mistaken, harbeths are made in britain still you should perhaps also define ’forward’ for us in your use of the word, but using the definition of ’forward’ commonly understood in these circles, you are mistaken again there is a saying that is bandied about pretty often by well worn, long time music lovers and audiophiles - ’after you have tried em all, you come back and find a home with harbeths’... obviously no speaker appeals to all, even all well worn audiophiles, but there is some truth in that claim harbeths are natural sounding, do voice and real (non electrified) instruments very well, do not overwhelm with a false sense of detail and ’hi-fi-ness’... as @arafiq states, their appeal is in their ability to please and allow for lengthy listening sessions without fatigue, and allow much harshly, poorly recorded material to sound passable, if not downright good
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a few additional points to add to the discussion
i understand the logic behind @ryder ’s statement but i think it is too strong... older models have a different tonality, but this can be managed by using the correct amp (a solid state one with good damping factor like a lower or older hegel. or belles aria, the like) and slightly brighter more open cables... older models like the compact7 es2 can be really excellent, and they are a bargain, give you so much of what is loved about harbeths for $1500-1800 a pair (plus stands) vs a grand more for es3’s and vs over 2 grand more for c7 40’s or xd’s... ****************************************
the non plus version of the shl5 also has a super tweeter... like the c7 es2 vs es3, the crossovers were modified to reduce some midbass boom/looseness and give the treble a noticeable lift (the xd versions do some more in the same direction, but just a teeny teeny bit) **************************************** there are those that say harbeths sound ’dead’, ’constipated’, ’dull’... this impression results from a matter of preference, how an individual hears, what that individual seeks from their hifi to repeat what i have said in other posts, hifi for many who stick to it over the years is a journey, while loving music is a constant... most new to the hobby are amazed by the high resolution, lively, overtly detailed sound real hi-fi offers, as it differs so much from what one had experienced prior, then folks enamored with the detail chase it, spend more $ in that pursuit some other folks always feel they want their system to reproduce the excitement and highly vivid (and very loud) nature of live music... some speakers excel at that, klipsch's, tekton's, wilsons and magicos on the higher end over time, if one sticks with the hobby, tastes needs preferences usually evolve... it is not fun to have one’s ears ringing the next morning after hearing a live band or a concert the night before ...folks who like to enjoy music alot, in their homes daily, move away from the fatigue of a bright, forward 'live-sounding' system, and want a more ’beautiful’ and easy to listen to kind of presentation, lower volumes, the sound and level of a human voice singing without amplifiers for instance - add to that the issue of much recorded music is mixed and mastered too brightly, compensating for the fact that most listeners don't have highly resolving rigs... at this point in one's journey is where harbeths (and their ilk - spendor classics, grahams, and so on) come in... and become beloved as a result by their owners
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to me, the stark reality of the matter is that all speakers have a sound, and of course, any speaker in a room then has even more of a sound -- this truism is absolute and unavoidable people like to say xyz is ’accurate’ - but no one really knows what 'accurate' it is... it is subjective, not objective... it is what we hear, as what we can measure to be ’accurate’ is woefully incomplete in explaining what we hear, how we feel a sounds different than b that said, all experienced folks in this pursuit understand that speakers by far, by far, produce the greatest distortion (i.e. variation) from input to output, than any other part of the signal chain -- even based on rudimentary measurements of frequency and phase response -- so speaker choice is naturally the most intensely personal what we can do (and should do), though, is hear real things (human voice, piano, acoustic guitar, drum set, cymbal shimmer, bowed bass, cello) and ideally hear them in the same or a similar room, then try to remember that sound, and compare to what similar reproduced sound/music of the same sounds like, and judge how close, how truthful it is to the real thing when done in this way, many who judge harbeths feel they do quite well, and better than most |
alan shaw often doesn’t do himself (nor his speaker owners) favors in how he issues goofy (usually self serving) blanket statements about amps, cables, stands and how they add/detract from the speakers’ performance... he thinks he is being ’strategic’ in wanting the focus and consumer spending power focused on the buying the best harbeth speaker, focus less on ancillaries... experienced users see through this... i do agree that prat and speed are not harbeth’s shining strengths, though the upper models do that pretty darn well, if properly driven atc’s are another matter, while also being an excellent british make, they present a totally different set of attributes, i still have two pair, they are leaner cleaner, utterly unforgiving and demanding of pristine source material and upstream gear... incredibly inefficient and revealing as in for true in-studio monitoring use level of clarity... they play what you feed them with all blemishes warts wrinkles right up front... some may want that type of presentation in their homes, many don’t |
i too owned early mon 40’s -- in the 2003/4 time frame iirc (these were the original monitors, grey britex cabinets with side handles)... had them for about a year, sold my spendor sp100’s to get them -- a big mistake which i continually regretted till last year, when i finally managed to get another set of 100’s back i had roger modjeski’s wonderful rm9-2 tube amp and an aragon 8008 ss amp back then... neither did well with the 40’s, the tube amp left the bass overblown and uncontrolled... the aragon took care of that but flattened the imaging and made the treble way too ’hifi’ so i too sold the 40’s after a year or so, went to big proac’s, which i just loved... the mon 40’s certainly need a lot of amplifier bass damping factor, and also, placement is quite critical for finding the right bass balance in room (well well away from boundaries, tough for such a humongous box)... but then the mids and treble are quite revealing, the solid stateness of the powerhouse aragon called too much attention to itself, and not in a good way all this was a real lesson in getting the room/speaker placement/amp combo implemented just right... learned the hard way... |
curious -- what is your stake in this? there are people who like harbeths, others that don’t -- clearly you don’t, we get it sizeable portions of the hi-fi industry wouldn’t exist without the notion of sympathetic distortion that makes listeners feel the music sounds nicer, so what? ... there’d be no market for vacuum tube gear for instance harbeth is a small company, but been at it for many years, has a loyal following worldwide enjoying their product, refining speaker designs and concepts that arose out of bbc research into acoustics and monitor speaker design in the 1960’s -- they have stayed small, stuck to their knitting, know what their customers want and what their brand means... it’s a tough time for all businesses, i am sure they aren’t immune, given covid, brexit and so on... but what’s it to you? and what’s your product (as a proudly self claimed speaker designer)? do you have a commercially available product? how is it doing? put cards on table please... i am sure your speakers are absolutely and precisely accurate to the source, free of any distortion, use only the best parts extant, perhaps i can purchase a pair? there is a long thread on this forum currently about users here with hidden agendas ... or is it that you simply enjoy pissing on others’ happiness? |
few more points to add to the discussion, given recent comments 1. i don’t think there should be any exclusive emphasis on harbeths... it is just that it is the topic of this thread, where the op specifically asked what is so special about harbeths... indeed there are many brands of speakers, past and current who uphold the bbc heritage and design philosophy 2. spendor’s 7 and 9 series couldn’t sound more different than their brethren classic series of bbc lineage... the modern floorstanding spendors are designed and voiced to compete with focals, revels, magicos, that ilk... it is a purposeful bifurcated product strategy to cover both bases, sonically and aethestically, one is for a modern sound modern look (for better or worse), the other is, well, ’classic’... 3. vandy’s certainly belong in the same conversation with the fine bbc heritage speakers like harbeths in that they offer a non-hifi, easeful, non-hyper-detailed sound... and as you would expect, vandy’s also often engender the same criticisms (lack of ’super-clarity’, slam, sound ’dead’, blah blah) from those wanting a more overtly hifi presentation... but make no mistake -- to make vandy’s sound right, they need the right, hella strong and sweet amp, even moreso than harbeths... this to such a degree that upper end vandy’s build in the bass amp into the speakers to take a load off... 4. agree that new harbeths are now darned expensive, too expensive, and there are many alternatives out there, many of which are very fine indeed, if different in how they present music, especially vocals... but really good stuff is never cheap... and yet cost and value are in the eye of each beholder and wallet 5. finally, i am currently lucky to have both the spendor classic series sp100 r2 and the harbeth mon 40.3xd... each also presents music differently, in numerous subtle ways, subtle tonal differences, while maintaining many common, endearing attributes such as an utterly natural sound with excellent transparency, full bass, easeful, effortless presentation (and the ability play loudly without strain if so desired)...
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a word to the wise
@prof, who stated the above, has contributed perhaps the seminal thread here on his hearing and assessing a whole host of excellent, mid to upper tier loudspeakers - for all interested, especially relative newbies, i strongly suggest you use the search function, or click @prof to see his past posts, and find that lengthy, but exceptionally broad reaching, informative thread - the value of this forum is only in small part the live threads, it is what has been written, covered and discussed in the past... for others, who might feel a pair of used harbeths for under 2 grand is a poor value, well, neither @prof’s wonderful thread, nor i, can help you much... there is always youtube... |
op quested’s are second gen brit studio monitors, very very limited distribution - basically a pro line product, not really for home hifi - like atc, they are true modern studio monitors, which may or may not please the home listening audiophile, a very very different sound than harbeths harbeth monitor 40’s in 40.2 form run about 10-13 grand a pair in the usa, depending on finish and condition... it is the latest versions 40.3 xd or anniversary, that generally trade at 16-19k a pair used (but still approximate new given their very recent release), then you add stands...
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very much agree w comments by @bassdude @prof @bassdude great call on hegel h590 - the 590 in particular has a little extra sparkle over the warmer voiced 390... and it is not an accident that alan shaw uses hegels in development and at audio shows, he ain’t no foo’... 😁 not to say there aren't other amps that make these harbeths sing beautifully |
