What is more accurate: magnetic anti-skating, or barrel weight attached a fishline?

Sunnyjim

I have seen turntables from Project, Music Hall, and a few other brands that still incorporate a small barrel weight attached to short fishline string which is stretched across a hooking loop to set ANTI-SKATING. It seems to be an artifact from the 1960’s and 1970’s tonearm design. It is also easy to lose or break

I tend to agree with you. For me this is also a let down in new expensive arm designs that use fish line. I personally see it as a cop out of sorts.

The only thing I would want on the end of a fishing line is my lure attached to a SM Bass, Trout or Muskie. There are so many different types of fishing lines, and they all deal with forces and vibrations differently, trying to trick and outsmart the fish.

http://media.nola.com/outdoors_impact/photo/fishing-lines-c5e62b4f20a3fc1f.jpg

Some are designed to stretch more; some not so much. Fishing line does lose its properties over time. So what about these 20-30 year old tonearm that are using it ?

Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime

:^)

Sunnyjim

My question is how accurate is that "device" compared to magnetic anti-skating employed by many turntable manufacturers

IMO the most accurate is able to deal with changing groove modulations and gradually increase force as it nears the inner grooves. This is basic physics; based on pivot arm design. Any out there that do this ?

I think that the VPI design of using the wire itself as Anti Skate is interesting as the wire would push back more toward the inner grooves. But then you have a "shaky" uni pivot design dealing with this force.

So no designs that that I am aware of. That makes all AS settings ball park, a guess at best. And, if one wants to get anal; this means anyone setting AS at a certain point in the record - it would be applicable to just that point on that specific record only. No ?

Peter at Soundsmith imo gives some good considerations to consider.

http://www.sound-smith.com/do-i-need-anti-skating.html

Of the pivot arms I have used the slickest AS came with the FR64s.

A search of anti skating at AudioGon reveals 2146 results. Hmm....

Nandric

However Van den Hul warned against such values (above 60 microns)

exactly because they need increased anti-skate. Aka:

to much anti-skate is worst than no anti-skate at all. This is the

reason that some of use the ’’minimal amount’’ of anti-skate.

I agree

Just some thoughts over coffee.

Happy Listening whether or not you use AS.

One way of demonstrating this is to raise the arm, stare at the cartridge from the front, wrap an elastic around your cartridge body (not the stylus/cantilever** ) and pull straight out toward you.

** Not responsible for any beheaded cartridges. 8^0

Hi Henry - hope you are enjoying your winter.
Its been terribly hot/humid here. Been staying at the lake up north (for me) pretty much full time. Sunnyjim thanks for letting me catch up on your thread.

"HOOK. LINE, AND SINKER" ANTI-SKATING"

funny...good one. :^)

I never expected such an impassioned discussion over the anti-skating used on many turntables.

Myself I have never met any audiophile that was not passionate. And vinyl guys (not really gals from my experience) are over the top.
I mean this in a good way. After all we could be into other things causing no good. We are not hurting anyone.

Here's a visualization that might help (and spare you the vector math):

Hold your left arm out in front of you (horizontally) with your palm facing toward the right.
• Bend your wrist so your fingers point further to the right, so it resembles the headshell/cartridge offset.
• Have someone tug on your fingertip in a direction parallel to your bent hand.
This is our null point case. Your hand will move to the right (skating force).

So, even at the null point, there's some skating force.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design

This is much safer than the elastic band method wrapped around the cartridge body I mentioned earlier ........:^)

Atmasphere
At any rate, I've yet to find any LP that can cause distortion or mistracking of the cartridge at any point, so it must be all good, right?

IMO it is all good with vinyl. Here is my take on it and with a personal example.
Firstly imo vinyl play produces good distortions. Meaning distortions we like.

I have had this Technics sl1200 lying around for a long time and for the last 20+ years was used for the purposes of loaning out. First to work friends and then these same friends kids. It went out 5 or 6 times during this time period. I got it back about a year ago and finally sold it to a 21 year old lady recently. Anyway....Set up it with a basic Grado black it sounded good; everyone was happy with it. They would use it and then decide if they were going to get a deck, or if it was not for them just return it.
Now up against better tables/tonearms, in the same room and gear (including cartridge) the sound differences were very clear and the "distortions" very evident. Here the linear tracker reveals a very different soundstage, and it plays clean on the last songs of records .....very often the best songs ! But until you hear this in your own room to make a direct comparison - you don't know.
The key being same room/gear. Different tables different rooms - can't be done. The room is the big factor. That sl1200 table on its own, set up well sounds just fine. I realize now that the $350 I sold it for with cartridge was a mistake. Should have kept it to spread the vinyl virus at the cottage. But somewhere there is a happy lady spinning tunes.

danvignau

It seems that my Signet arm has a bias built in for the record radius. A weight is at the end of an arm that is leveraged differently depending on the tone arm position. There is very little difference, but it is measurable.

The answer to the question is the better designed one of any type. Even a perfectly designed spring could work quite well..

well said and based on my experiences I agree with you. The jokes about the fishing lines aside, whether string/line, magnets, springs, a well executed design that can be setup easily works. I have found a lesser design set up well, will out perform a "better design" not set up well.
So a design that lets you set up and forget is critical to just get on and listen to the music.

Lewm - No matter how you slice it, LPs rule.

It is safe to say this here. This is a partisan group.
But if you read the posts on this thread, or any other of the 2000 plus threads that deal with being "anxious" about anti skating ;
if I was only digital, I would be staying digital.
Just saying.

Rauliruegas

I did it with 3-4 LT in my system

7,630 posts Raul and not one that I have seen that offers to share information or shows any ability to set up a LT tonearm.

I am referring only to Air Bearing LT tonearms; their Achilles Heel is needing clean, dry air. For this reason being in Mexico, I assuming you used other LT types. Pls share some info and enlighten us on one of the LT threads. I like learning and, I still do own pivot tonearms.


The thread’s quote, so far for me, from Stringreen.

"VPI’s Antiskate gizmo"

priceless.
big smile.

Enjoy the music.

Raul

I have multiple, adjacent, dedicated music rooms set up using different technologies. The technologies include tape on a Studer which can be rolled between the rooms. These rooms are on a concrete poured floor. If you would like to learn more, and discuss what I have done, please contact me via my AudioGon virtual system. Just click on the Runner.

@Raul
no. not together. They represent two options for running. I am just up north fishing. I will answer your question in more detail on my virtual system thread.
The cool lake environment is keeping me from wanting to go home where it is 35 degree C with the humidity 40+ Celsius weather. Watching the Rio Olympics very interesting to see green pool water and only 18 degrees Celsius. A cold front........Well it is winter there.