chayro
Seeing audiophiles at shows and grudgingly accepting the fact that I must be one of them.
blindjim>
LOL
elizabeth
because I own physically large speakers I MUST play music really loud. ()
blindjim>
Its true. talking to other uninitiated folks, to a person that is the first item they land on. wow. That much money? You must be able to play tunes at concert levels!!
it used to bug me, now its curiously funny.
millercarbon
What I absolutely dislike the most right now is FedEx
blindjim>
Ain't it the truth! hope it all works out well for you soon.
three_easy_payments
... but then I stumble on something that undeniably improves the experience even further. I hate this...and I love it simultaneously. Sigh.
blindjim>
From the 'sopranos"':
just when I thought I was out... they drag me back in.
BTW, I think they make a vaccine for that now.
viridian
... 45 years... Really, I can’t think of anything that I don’t like about the hobby.
blindjim>
Thanks. this thing needs more people like you.
wolf_garcia
I dislike the Amazon "Siri" gizmos ... hey're lame except maybe when used to solve domestic crime.
blindjim>
I figured if I used it to play music I'd have to turn in my audiofiliac credentials and I'd lose all of my privileges.
for me its a $40 calendar, clock, timer, weatherman in a box, appointment reminder, language translator, measurement converter, thesaurus, dictionary, spell cheker, fact finder, Atlas, GPS locator, airline ticket purchase agent, AM sports radio, reservation agent, business finder, hands free phone, TV Guide, Rolodex, and once in a while its a remote controled light switch.
no. wait. that is my Google Mini..
the Amazon dot is just a bed side alarm clock. Its way dummer and has a lot more attitude by compparison., but it does look nicer and it lights up!
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mahgister
People who swear by measuring rod,
blindjim>
there is wisdom in that line.
specs have their place, but it is ears and heart that pays for it in the end.
rickallen
Snobbery. ... when someone gets uppity or condescending or judgmental even, it really grinds my gears.
blindjim>
I've no clue where an arrogant attitude came on board in the Audio industry, but in numerous such venues, it sure did!
in not one sales tactics or salesmanship handbook have I read where a succesful way to close a deal is to belittle the buyer or come off demeaning competition or as you said, direct someone to buy this or that as it appears to suit them, without the buyer being ihn accordance with the item being offered.
I used to get really offended by those who thought they could read my mind or make it up for me.
now it makes me laugh and just ask for the owner, and let the owner know why they lost the sale. then see if the owner tries to salvage the deal.
locally I've gone into audio shops and left nearly as quickly as I walked in due to the shop's inherent lack of product knowledge and or a salesman's attitude that leans heavily on intimidation or arrogance and not properly qualifying desires and ability of the buyer properly.
in fact I'll never return there though they mnay have exactly what I want. life is too short.
jameswei
16 years ago, I bought a turntable, arm, and cartridge rig from a well-known retailer and I paid the high end price.
A month or so later, the retailer called me and said he had to ask me for another $2000. There must have been some miscalculation.
I did pay him, but I didn’t like it.
blindjim>
wow. you are one helluva guy.
that dealer would not have seen more $$$ from me on that deal.
well, not without a gun in his hands.
sorry. I have a long standing policy.
all deals once agreed to and paidin full, are final and the buyer is not allowed to make additional payments.
so far that policy has been flawless in its implementation and application and it seems to work for both parties.
I did run across a dealer that enjoyed naming one price in the showroom and at the register enjoyed it just as much to increase the price.
I said we need to go back into the demo room and pay for this thing. paying at the register costs too much!
yeah. really. and more than once
nice enough guy but i guess he deals with a lot of alzheimer paitients., or may be one himself.
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skyscraper
Fortunately I don’t have small children to starve to afford further upgrades.
blindjim>
so.... we're supposed to feed children?
. Well, that sorts out a few things but its gonna destroy the current food budget .
no sale, or walks, as they are called by the dealership/salesmen are lost revenue. plain and simple. gone money.
Dealers can't sit on the notion the 'wild and wooly web' is killing them all by itself. The web is just another competitor, not THE assassin.
larry
Most dealers operate on a shoe string. They don’t have inventory to demo and if they do, they assume you will not buy the higher end lines.
blindjim>
Definitely understood.
I know for a fact its tuff to have upper range inventory at all times. I know as well upper end pieces can be brought in so a demo can be arranged and then offers on it/them, considered if or when a buyer is serious and that goes back to qualifying. the dealer's relationship with the manufacturer, or other dealers carrying the same or similar brands.
In fact if some sort of 'rent an in home audition' affair can be agreed on, and I were serious about moving up or into some higher end device, I'd be willing to pay for it. within reason, of course.
surely enough to over come shipping and add in some value for the good faith aspect.
I mean, there are those folks in audioland who are getting pieces in their homes for indiscreminate periods of time so they can review it/them without any preconception the piece will be purchased once the article is drawn.
what happens to those pieces after their interview?
same thing for show ponies, er, pieces. do these just go back in the box and await another packing and shipping maneuver?
I've little problem with buying a demo piece if it is sold with the same asurances a new piece would come with albeit at a lower price of course.
markcdaniel
My personal rules -
1) Always be respectful
2) Never poo poo other people’s gear
3) Listen to other’s questions without bias
4) Answer with your knowledge, not your sales quota or personal agenda
5) My Mom always taught me that if you don’t anything nice to say, don’t say anything
blindjim>
Mine were enjoying eating and living under my own roof, so I would do within reason, everything possible to close a sale and often that merely meant being knowledgable about the products on hand, its competition, considerate, thoughtful, and able to meet the needs/desires of the buyer.
I never wanted anyone I could not sell to feel they should never come back for something else later on. that is purely bad business, and unforgivable to display abismal public relations.
keegiam
The extreme expense and added complications of reproducing the bottom octave.
blindjim>
you are preaching to the choir. well said.
sibilance is a pet peeve of mine too.
sleepwalker
are as meaningless and awkward as an elephant riding a unicycle on a high wire.
blindjim>
LOL
not everyone is a wordsmith but product knowledge does seem to be pretty important when one is asking for large wads of frog skins from strangers.
audioguy
The high and mighty snobs that berate those that can’t afford $10k Magico speakers...and then private message them to continue to make said person feel like a loser....
blindjim>
ouch.
I've run into one or two of those myself.
with one such seller I had to call the cops to get him to cease and desist as the situation descended well below civilized correspondence and well into ridiculous threats. of bodily injury.
unison
easy to buy to hard to sell...
blindjim>
Been there. Done that. I call those items my 'trickle down pieces, or antique collecting in advance.
bdp24
1- Not currently having a music room big enough for my Magneplanar Tympani T-IVa loudspeakers.
blindjim>
a former statesman once said, "tare down that Wall!
but then, you're probably not in Berlin are you? lol
technick
Then the owner came over, looked at the screen, and said, “Oh, Tekton, the new Bose of this year
blindjim>
I would have replied, Only this year?
an audio salesman once asked what would I have if I could have anything in terms of powewr train (line stage and amps) for a stereo rig.
I said VAC, VTL, BAT, or Thor,. He looked at me like I was speaking Mandarin so I asked, Haven't you heard of these?
he shook his head, No.
Ayre lynn, and Krell were his Gods at the time, nothing else existed apparently, nor was he predisposed to research the true scope of his career and the major players therein.
as for sonic annomolies I hate,, it has to be bright, etched top ends...
OK, and sibilence.
and yes... poorly resolved, flabby, and or weak bass.
alright... you've dragged it out of me, too polite a presentation.
a reproduction which is so easy to listen to you fall asleep in the doing.
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a greater proliferation of audio dealerships and the consequent increased visibility of various maker's gear, is only going to happen with increased support by manufacturers.
the difficulty there is obvious. the audio industry is proliferated by 'cottages'. a cottage industry at its finest is how many label this realm. as such, sheer production is going to be a limiting factor... at least initially.
a handful or less of folks soldering this to that is never going to generate the numbers needed to begin 'floating' dealership inventories so the makers entire line up gets the visibility it/they need to entice or educate the buying public.
money, either desire for it, or the lack of it is the moat around many castles preventing them from becoming Metropolis.
a new perspective on a dealers inventory status is needed.
Reforms on present 'floor planning' agreements is necessary. Floor planning is keyed to financing product via a third party so product can simply sit on a showroom or in a dealer's back room still in a box and essentially as an unpaid unit.
it reasures the maker and enables the dealers a window for possible sales without paying everything FOB, or immediately when it comes off the truck.
FP provides an agreement is required somehow so makers gear can get to, and reside in this joint or that for a period of time before it is either paid for, or sent back to its maker or some other dealer's showroom.
this is a dicey prospect at times.
the maker agrees this dealer or that can possess the thing for X amount of time then pay it off, or a maker forces a dealer to put in place a third party which will indemnify the dealer for payment.
this is not a free thing for the dealer unless the dealer can move the stuff within the span alloted before the 'vig' is applied.
the reason Best Buy, formerly Sears, Macy's, your local auto dealer, etc. have the enormity of product in house is because of floor planning. very little of that inventory is already paid for 100%.
most of it is on 'loan' so to speak using in part agreements with the maker and as well entities like GECC which get a percentage of the cost of each piece of any makers gear which has not been sold after some predetermined period of time.
These 'finance' companies wil send reps to do the actual inventory at every location a dealership runs to log what is or is not on hand routinely.
if not accounted for they will also ensure payment for it has been transmitted or demand it then.
the FP agreement may be as long as 180 days, or as little as 30 and this period is between the maker and the seller.
then too just good sense will dictate how long something could sit statically as development, and manufacturerring steadily roll along despite sales... to a point anyways.
either makers of gear will begin to step up production so more gear will be available for distribution to which ever dealership, or makers will begin opening their own doors here and there to promote their product and acquire greater public visibility and interest, ala, BOSE, YAMAHA, SONY, JVC, ARCAM, MARANTZ, MCINTOSH, FOCALE, B&W, KEF, SONUS FABER, AR, KRELL, etc., all of which have the wherewithall to produce stuff in great numbers so it can sit at national chain stores such as the former Sound Advice.
these windows guaranteeing inventory beyond usual financial limits of a dealership also promotes sales where profit margins are diminished so product can be moved without penalty of tarriffs from the FP agencies. this also helps the industry and buying public at large.
here is where in production terms, the one guy, several guy or gals oriented makers will not be able to compete. they will either keep the status quo and make new arrangements for getting paid soem time later from a dealer, keep sales strickly in house on a direct to consumer basis, or acquire likely off shore plants which can make the goods as per the designs so production is escalated, ala Prima Luna, silverline, etc..
maybe too makers will entertain partnerships within the industry and open their own doors in more exclusive arrangements, ala Martin Logan & Krell, BAT & Avalong, etc..
one thing for sure is so long as production and consequently visibility shelters high end audio within the shadows and peripheries of mass retail markets, it will continue as a minor, eclectic, niche market whose development will never achieve the status and wide spread appeal it might.
remember, there was once upon a time an enterprise named BOSE and another one called SONY that no one knew anything about. through innovation and marketing, became giants in the audio industry.
naturally some makers will stick to their self imposed 'exclusivity' they have formulated into their brand and keep the status quo, therebh existing as egnigma more than tangible. dreamware rather than hardware.
and yes... a flat, dry sterile presentation makes me walk away almost immediately.
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@knever>
12 posts
blindjim>
Everybody is a critic. forgive me but it seems your huberous is showing.
although to some extent and it appears its happening just now, I agree, folks are constantly abusing that freedom of speech bit.
so you are not to keen on free thinking, but obviously, you adore all that Audio has to offer. Congratulations.
next time I post a thread, I'll make sure to check with you first so it keeps closer to your codes of and for expression., rather than to simply allow unrestrained free thoughts to roam or litter the web's forums.
my bad. sorry. lol
or, one could merely keep their input on topic rather than to condem or censoriously critique it which adds absolutely nothing.
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@joshfilm
blindjim>
good call. especially on #3
kink
The poor sound quality of most recordings is my main complaint.
blindjim>
plus 2 on recording quality. it is a shame only jazz and classical seem to get better attention on the whole, than most other genres.
... and yes, I'm convinced having a dedicated low fi rig, ala desktop? is necessary to routinely appreciate those poorly done productions.
a fella in the recording mixing, and production vein once told me they would in the past mix music according to the demographic they envisioned buying it and further imagined the gear they would use for playback.
maybe that theme is back in vogue and much is being mixed for mobile device playback.
the woe of it is today the tech is immensely advanced and why labels are not striving to open new revenue streams via offering top quality HD cuts in addition to their main stream consumer slag just escapes me completely.
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@Rackon>
Audio store salesmen assuming my husband is the audiophile when we shop together as a couple.
Speakers with tipped up treble and/or narrow sweet spots.
blindjim>
Ouch!
Salesmanship today in many cases is a lost art and respect as well seems to have disappeared. I do get it. Sorry.
On that ‘head in a vice’ and tipped up treble bit, the limited sweet spot is an unacceptable proposition though a treble issue can come from numerous respects.
Setup is key and attending to electrical concerns in showrooms is not always done exceptionally well. I’ve heard far more than one demo instance where the top end was just bright or etched as the result of the PLC they were using or if no PLC was in play. Speakers not well run in, recorded material, etc even the wires in use can either contribute or be culprits.
But I get it. The speakers sweet spot and the top end MUST be amenable to the listening experience or I’ve no consideration for it/them.
Never understood why someone would buy speakers whose presentation was properly delivered to one square foot of space, more or less.
.
For me, its a dry, clinical, sterile lifeless presentation even if all else is being rendered appropriately.
Music is best served wet. Or at least moist. Never dry, brittle, or crumbly or stale. |
well, it seems you have found the problem. (s)
Although I've found when I believe the vast majority of others have issues, I gotta wonder how I'm the only one who doesn't.
IC chips were an advancement in the science of electronics. they sure did not help the SQ though. ICs did make manufacturering cheaper.
off shore production makes things cheaper or did until recently. but that wave has yet to land on our heads/pockets fully.
it takes more than science. You can always bet on that!
Science is just a part of the equation. there is artistry in the design which when both are combined, culminates in escalating performance.
as for data sheets and spec sheets, testing, the numbers which will always matter most are the ones I can or will throw at this or that component which I feel fits in my system, or will be a fundamental part of it. using specs only to formulate a buying decision is putting oneself on pretty thin ice.
the real test or examination of any component is the one we do with our own ears.. and or eyes.
often, I’d rather default to the size and weight of a thing in order to make a buying decision more so than to place my faith entirely on its specs, all things being more or less equal. especially with amps.
as for musical preffs reviewers use? that coin lands face up on both sides. the accounts which convey nothing to me are those writers which testify they are using some arcane, super eclectic remote unknown cut or album, sometimes only available on vinyl LP, or all their selections are classical movements you have never heard. such accounts are a sheer waste of time to try digesting.
it makes the author look like a card carrying snob who lives in a very small world.
the idea is to relate to prospective buyers, not to show you know about music no one else does. such articles miss the freakin’ point completely and are a waste of time. but arrogance & snobbery is or has been a real part of this hobby for a long while. and its just too bad that its stench still lingers about now and then..
I have a number of ripped tracks from alternative, Americana, Bluegrass, and Country music which have as much fidelity and polish as do my Jazz and classical tracks, but it is audio heresey it seems, for a writer to mention their use in an account of expensive audio equipment. too bad. |
