If a bear farts in the woods, is the pope really catholic, or did someone actually hear the sound of one hand clapping when the tree fell down? Snatch the pebbles from my hand and you will have a handfull of pebbles. I think, therefore I wish I were someone else who doesn't! Will someone please tell the voices to stop tormenting me!! Did the omlette come first, or was it the McNuggets? In a galaxy far, far away, in a land that time forgot, Yogi also said, "What're we gonna do BooBoo?" therefore I would not trust any accounts of the wiley brown thief of picky-nick baskets. I stand behind this statement and shall remain resolute in bringing the scoundrels to justice. Please, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, he's merely a pawn on the checkerboard. That's really all I have to say on this subject. What more can one say? I suppose you could mention something about Jesus, or the stock market, or point to modern trends in dental irrigation to prove the point beyond the shadow of a doubt, but I have no doubt that you must all be aware by now that my methodology is beyond reproach, and yes, the sound was a good one, to be sure. It came from over there.
Good on'ya for bringing that up! Glad that's finally cleared up now. Move along now folks, there's nothing to see here...
Marco |
Good sound has go with the fabric on the couch and the window treatment. Good sound does not know skin color, religious beliefs, or sexual preferences. Good sound never wears brown shoes with a black belt. I know, I know, I told you I'd said my piece on this one, but I woke up this mornin' with a turtle head pokin' out my ass and I thought I'd share the joy with y'all. Good sound does not come in screw-top bottles, boxes or cans. I had my sound un-pimped by German engineers and it is gooder than good now. Good sound always knows which tie to wear and when to keep its mouth shut. I loved good sound once, but one day good sound stopped calling and left no forwarding address.
Marco
P.S. Fatparrot, didn't someone already say that? |
Fatparrot - Yeah, I know, I was playin' off your quote...ya'know; dejavu...didn't someone already say that, or was I dreamin'?...sometimes the ol' elevator doors don't open all the way and you got'ta squeeze out or spend the afternoon with the sweaty fat man in close quarters.
Newbee - you're lucky you didn't let Good Sound in when it came a knockin'. You've probably heard this story, but some of our younger members may not be familiar with the legend: Back in the early 70's Good Sound did a disappearing act and skipped town. Feds said they wanted him to ask some questions about a little boy gone missin' in Culver City. They sent a whole posse of men after Good Sound when someone reported a sighting in the foothills around Reno. 26 men went out, only 2 came back. Of those two, one can be found to this day muttering incoherently over an empty glass at Mr. O's in Reno. The other one was committed, and shortly after hung himself from a Joshua Tree. Good Sound showed up again in the 90's somewhere on the East Coast. Nobody said anything and the law's kept its distance. Good Sound was never prosecuted. Nothing could be proved. Speaking of incoherent mutterings (while making a few of my own)... Illusory dichotomy?!? I think someone's got his raquet strung too tight. I can't afford words like that (OK, I guess I could probably swing a used one), much less use them in a sentence! You know you can probably get better performance from those words if you get a better power cord for them. Better yet, daisy chain a Hydra to a PS Audio and you'll be cookin' with gas my friend!
Marco |
MrT is a find mucker, plain and simple. It's how he entertains himself. Find Mucking. Futher mucking find mucker, mucked my find and now my noggin's knocked up! |
9 out of 10 dentists agree; music that's free from error is a critical part of good aural hygiene. When considering two speakers, always ask a dentist.
Marco |
Tell'em bout' his Mamma!!!
It's friendly banter like this that has Audiogon servin' up those complementary pipin' hot mugs of shutthefuckup. I'll take two sugars in mine please.
Who's taking bets on how much longer this thread is going to remain online? My money says it won't make it to Sunday morning. |
It is most certainly all subjective. The idea of "High-Fidelity", or being 'true' to some objective concept of what the music is "supposed" to sound like is both absurd and contrary to what the enjoyment of music, or any art form, is all about. More to the point, it just doesn't matter. It reminds me so much of a dog chasing its own tail in circles. The ultimate goal for me is when the gear gets 'out of the way' and I no longer pay any attention to it at all, and am totally absorbed in the presence of music. My idea of what that sounds like is likely going to be somewhat, or completely different to what someone elses idea of what that sounds like might be. The same way you might choose a different tennis racquet, different auto, different flavor of ice cream than someone else...whose to say one is "better" than the other in objective terms. Each may suit a different individual and become the 'best' in their experience...whether or not some collective somehow decrees one or the other widget to actually be the very "best" widget, really should not matter one wit to anyone. Find your own "best" - you are human after all and cabable of your very own set of distinctions, and certainly prone towards making meaning out of everything you experience.
Marco |
for me, the closer i get to the sound of an instrument in a live setting, the happier i am. Then spend more time listening to live music. You're subject is the reproduction of that music by an artificial means. First off, what music sounds like in a live setting may be different to you than it is to me. It will certainly be different depending upon the setting, where you listen from, live mixing, the crowd, the room, your mood, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes live music can sound simply horrible, as we all know, and we wonder why we spent the coin when we could be more moved by the same music on our own system at home. It happens. It all comes down to subjective opinion...what makes you "happy" may not be what makes me "happy". That said, yes, I think I agree with you on some level that what one of the things that engages me most about my system is the illusion of a 'realistic' presence. I don't know that brings us much closer to some objective definition of "good sound" though but I suppose it's something. Again, it becomes subjective...those qualities in a system that make music sound "live" to you may be quite different to those that I am engaged by. Marco |
The problem I have with the idea of this question is in the title. The word "good" implies there is a human being making a judgement based on whatever the heck it is you guys decide is appropriate, for instance ('good" and 'bad' do not exist in nature nor some kind of objective reality - they are concepts that exist only in the human mind). So, then is that supposed to represent some kind of standard for the rest of the world to aspire to when it comes to the reproduction of sound? Can we all join the "Good Sound" club if we qualify and can afford the membership fee and dues? Will there be a committee to determine who gets to join, and who isn't quite 'right'? Will we have to qualify on one of those "is it live, or is it Memorex" tests. Must we have heard a cello in our living room before being considered? As far as "accuracy" becoming a means of judgement, I'd have to agree with that I've never heard a system that sounds like live music, and I do listen to live music, have heard cellos and violins in my house. Various systems, in various rooms have varying strengths and weaknesses depending upon the material you feed them. The idea of the cello in your own living room test is a bit odd because, well, even if I do record a cello in my living room with minimilast proecessing and brilliant mixing and recording with the best gear available, and then actually create a system that makes that sound quite "realistic" in my own living room...that's all fine and good...if that were the only recording I listened to for the rest of my life. Not gonna' happen though. And I can tell you with great confidence that the vast majority of the music I listen to was definitely not recorded in my living room. In fact, I'd venture to guess that the rooms most of them were recorded in bear no resemblence whatsoever to my living room. Also, unfortunately, most of the music I do listen to has had some mixing and processing, and there are usually one or more human beings that have made decisions about how to implement all that mixing and processing. I too do enjoy the illusion that my system has brought musicians and instruments and an environment into my living room. Given that it is an illusion at best, it is up to the listener to judge the effectiveness of that illusion. That will vary from person to person. Some are more easily convinced than others. Those in the elite "Good Sound Club" who've heard cellos and pianos and cymbals and bagpipes in their very own homes can continue to feel special that they are in such a privelidged position to judge such matters with peerless integrity. Pardon me if I don't drop to my knees and bend deeply at the waist, but while I'm here, would any of you happen to have any Grey Poupon?
Marco |
It doesn't take an expert, or a seasoned concert goer, or an audiophile who
changes their amp as frequently as their underpants to be able to judge a
stereo system. The convincing illusion of a musical sound, or a human voice
does not require someone familiar with sound engineering, musicology, nor
the design and manufacture of high-end audio components. The kind of
reproduction of sound that makes a persons hair stand on end or raises
goose bumbs requires no membership cards, secret handshakes or special
discernment based upon experience nor knowledge, in order to appreciate
that illusion. Because one person is intimately familiar with the nuances of
what a kazoo and jaw harp sound like does not put them in any better
position to judge for another person what sounds "good" for
them. To rely upon another person's opinion of how well a given system will
accomplish the illusion, no matter how experienced and knowledgeable that
person may be, could be just as unreliable as asking someone else which
movie you should watch, or which book you should read, or which food you
should eat, or which wine to drink. Yes, you may get some opinions that
actually work for you, but they are still only that; opinions...just as much of
an illusion, if you will, as the reproduction of the sound. The supposition of
the question here, to me, implies that there is some objective means of
judgement of such things. This is an oxymoron..."judgement" can
never be objective no matter how scientific. Science that was proved to be
"true" a hundred years ago is now held in doubt, and some of it
may no seem as absurd as the flat earth. Why do people need assurance
from others that what they enjoy in life is "right" to be enjoying?
Do we want tunas with good taste, or tunas that taste good? |
