The Acoustic Horn AH 300 may be the best mid range horn available to mankind. The guys who designed and built the Cogent Field Coil driver chose it to showcase their product. You can have a pair custom built for you with adapters hand made for the drivers you choose to use for $2700/pair in maple. Other wood choices require a small upcharge.
Because this horn can reach down as low as 350 Hz. it is easier to integrate with your dynamic woofers than horns which have to cross higher.
In the context of high-end audio, this option is neither large or expensive -and the high efficiency allows you to use tiny amplifiers. My 15 watt amplifier loafs along.
I hope this helps you. |
Shadorne - What I got from Renmeister's opening post was this: He sold his horns because he was unable to integrate the horn he loved with his bass output. So he went looking for alternatives and found no non-horns that matched what he had given up. That led him to ask for suggestions as to how he might overcome this seeming contradiction.
I think your ATC speakers might well be the answer but I'm basing that on reputation, having never experienced them myself. Most of the other realistic suggestions focused on other horn options or wave guides (another name for horns?) or highly efficient conventional models. And a few have mentioned ways he could use the speakers he no longer has more advantageously.
For the most part the thread has been constructive. But, as you suggested, Weseixas the Troll could not resist disrupting a thread about horns with his unwanted praise of all things planar. Unsound tried to resist corrupting for as long as he could but ultimately had to enter as well being as he is only human.
However, if we ignore their nonsense, there is no reason why this thread cannot return to its original constructive path.
If any of you feel certain that you do not like horns then go quietly in whatever direction you prefer. Those of us who do like them would like to have an adult conversation without your petulant interruptions.
Thank you for your co-operation in this matter. I promise not to invade your planar threads. |
I'm not so sure there is anywhere to go after owning horns but I've often thought that buying a small church or movie theater might be a good idea WHILE owning them.
I can tell that my horns would like more space. |
Pointless indeed, Drubin. It basically just comes down to asking which religion is best. World news reports are a good indicator of what sort of answers that discussion can yield.
Around here you can be crucified for disparaging tubes or liking horns or knocking Diana Krall.
In other places you might be stoned. (Not that kind of stoned)
So what's the answer? Stop talking about it altogether? That would make for a very ho hum fo rum. Wouldn't it? |
Weseixas, who plainly knows next to nothing about horn loudspeakers, continues relentlessly to underscore that most evident fact with generalities, wives' tales and misinformation. What drives this foolish behavior? What makes a grownup act this way?
While I haven't the ability to measure my horns for distortion, I'm quite happy to say that I can't hear any indication of distortion at all. The presentation is calm and effortless. In my 330 square foot room, they aren't tested at all.
The high efficiency claim goes without saying, as does the radiation control. A horn works like a rifle barrel in directing the sound. The flare of the horn (in my case, 40 degrees) confines the lateral distribution thereby preventing any early interference from room boundaries. But not all horns are that narrow. Likewise, not all horns are made of inch thick, non-resonant hardwood. And not all horns are smooth and conical. Generalities about horns make as much sense as generalities about anything else.
Weseixas is just here to make trouble. Ask him about his death panels. |
Since I got my horns I have purchased a couple of cars and another rental property. So that's the kind of thing you buy after you own horns because you are done worrying about audio at that point.
I'm currently wondering if I really need a smart phone. |
Duke - Does a lower crossover point better conceal integration problems between a horn and a dynamic woofer? It seems that way to me. My own system crosses at about 350 Hz. |
Duke - I started out with the JBL woofers that were native to my L-200 which are the LE15B. Bill suggested that I would get better efficiency and a lower XO point by switching to the RCF L15P530 drivers. These, by the way, were a nightmare to locate as they had already been discontinued by the time Bill recommended them to me. It turned out that they had been bought mostly for car stereo subs even though that is not what they were originally designed for. The replacement apparently was not as good according to Bill.
If I ever get to the point of selling my horns, I have a vintage pair of 12 inch drivers that I will use as single drivers in a simple cabinet - so I guess that's my answer to the original question. |
Duke - As far as I can tell, "conical horn" is the nicest thing Bill can say about a system. He says the AH300 is the best he knows how to make. Apparently he sees your "waveguides" in a similar light. That should make your head swell a bit.
I tried to call Bill the master of horn design once but he laughed it off and said that would be Danley. Why no mention of Tom Danley in these horn threads? Don't you guys know about him? |
This tweeter discussion is largely atopical since half of us can't hear beyond 10 Khz. The mid range is where our discussion should be centered because that is where most of our material comes from.
In my experience, nothing else produces quite the same caliber of mid as my horns. Other designs seem like toys by comparison. |
I have tweeters in my B&C DCX 50 coax drivers but I have never hooked them up to an amp. If anything is missing, I don't miss it. |
Not all horn speakers are the same. Some are better than others. I have not heard all of them. If I had, I could offer one person's opinion, only one person's opinion. Some of you seem to feel that you are speaking on behalf of many people when you express your opinion. Likewise, can it even be called an opinion if it is not sufficiently informed?
Very few of you have ever heard horns like mine and I would bet that none of you have spent significant time with them. They are quite scarce. Yet outright blanket condemnation is proffered by members who have found some other kind of horn inadequate or offensive.
It's like basing your opinion about women on an overheard conversation between Rosie O'Donnell and Donald Trump. Yes, one of them is a woman - I'll leave it to you to figure out which is witch.
Weseixas and Unsound are a sad fact of life. Party crashers with bad intentions will always arrive just when the collective mood is at its most ebullient. As Dan-Ed has pointed out repeatedly, those two show up to drop a turd in the punchbowl every time the word "horn" appears in a thread title. They seem unable to help themselves. In their minds, we need their sobering influence. In my mind, they need to evaporate. |
Larry - Those guys continually invade church services and harass the faithful about their beliefs, all the while calling them zealots. If they are of a different faith, let them stay at home and worship as they see fit.
Do a search of horns and you will see that they both do the same tiresome thing every time a thread concerning horns appears.
As Dan-Ed said, we are all aware that they don't like horns. There is no need for perpetual harassment from them. |
How big of a flame would you need for your 30 hz. plasma signal? |
Dale - Your speakers look very interesting. It's got to be true that a full blown, hand made, 3 way horn system for less than $8000 is a first.
I intend to give this option a lot of thought. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. |
Mrdecibel - In the late 80s I was a salesman at a Klipsch dealership in Boulder, Colorado. My comment was made with full awareness of the models you mention. The Volti appears to be a far more refined and better realized revision of PWK's best efforts. If so, I think it warrants closer investigation. |
MrD. - It is my plan to have the words "never set foot in Florida" included in any eulogy I may inspire. Thanks for the invite nonetheless.
Concerning PWK, just stay happy. Those who have delved deeply into horns and their behavior feel that Klipsch was something of a pioneer but has long since been eclipsed by the efforts of others.
I think you'll find that Tom Danley is the most esteemed horn designer today. My own guru, Bill Woods, has many admirers and Earl Geddes is developing a strong following on Audio Circle and with the DIY gang.
Classic Audio Reproductions and Audiokinesis have great reputations and Volti looks like he deserves similar recognition.
Horn loudspeakers are thriving and should be seen as a growth area within hi-end audio. As hobbyists mature and develop the realization that there is more to be had than "Recommended Components", the field broadens and the excavation becomes deeper and more thorough.
I remember laughing at the Asians back in the 1980s for wanting all our big, ugly old theater junk when there were Vandersteens and B&Ws to be had. What a bunch of suckers!!
Then, about 20 years later, I started to learn that they weren't so foolish after all. Single ended tube amps and horn speakers, even in their early stages were superior to the products that elicited Harry's Hosannas in TAS. Now I know full well that there is nothing superior to the best horn designs when driven by well crafted, small output single-ended amplification.
Perhaps modified Klipsch can qualify as a player today (I have no experience with them) but the PWK Heritage stuff in stock form does not compete with a good many of the designs that followed. In fact, I'm afraid that many of the time worn objections to horns may have been born of Cerwin Vega or Klipsch horns being driven by Adcom or Crown back in the day. |
Yorkville Sound's Unity speakers are a Danley design. Look into the them. All the reports I've read about them are raves.
There's a fellow on AC named JDUBS who bought a pair and has gone to extremes modifying and enhancing them. My guess is that his speakers are magnificent. He sounds like he knows his stuff in spades.
Pro stuff isn't pretty but if you can overcome that concern, many of their speaker products will represent a bargain that our high end speaker guys don't begin to approach. Have a look. |
