What Do You Get When You Spend Megabucks?

"are you really going to argue that it's better than say Lakefrontroad's getup"

What do you think? :)

Setting the room construction aside.

What in your mind sets that system apart from some of the others? I realize you may not have specifics but in general what makes you feel that system is better than either of the two systems I posted other than maybe bass extension?

" don't think anyone could seriously question the overall quality of these latter systems, but they would in no way approach the state of the art."

You're 100% wrong.

Money Guarantees nothing, clearly this site proves this out.

And I can think of several under $50,000 system that would eat the lunch of Wilson X-2 and the mega$$$ Kharma's. And although I find the X-2 not so impressive. I don't take the Kharma's so lightly. And yes by just about anyone's standards would these under $50K systems would be considered state of the art, especially for a domestic application.

The more you know the less it cost you to get state of the art sound. Right down to building some of the system or the whole system yourself. Atleast from an actual financial perspective.

My "DIY" (although I'm not sure I qualify for DIY status anymore)active speakers cost about $8500/pr (amps/crossover/box/drivers) and they will hang with $40,000 Kharmas. Fact is they have too since the project was inspired by the need for a center channel for the Kharma Midi Exquisites.

Working on some final box energy issues, total project cost, 10 years of DIY, 10 years audio industry experience, 6 years component design and about $10,000 total investment. And a passion and determination for excellence.

The more you know the less it costs. But if the designer of the system is truely knowledgeable spending more will move the performance up incrementally. But there is a wall.

As a consumer you are not in a position to "develop" the products technology so at a certain point you can only buy a certain level of quality and then the technology maxes out and ones tolerance for price increase versus performance gains creeps in and determines quitting time.

How can an individual without knowledge and access to tools and resources make a new and improved opamp, tube or a DAC.etc. hopefully you're getting my point.

Even if you make minimum wage the most expensive part of a system is getting the experience and knowledge to know what SOTA sounds like. Prioritizing compromises to suit your tastes and understand that the sound you maybe looking for is not state of the art sound.

Always be careful what you wish for.

Meyer Sound X-10/EMM Dac2/CD transport

The following System is competitive with the Kharma, subjective tastes will sway your decision. Better than the X-2 for sure.

ATC SCM200, SCM150, ATC SCA2, Reimyo CDP-777

Those are two under $50,000 systems that for normal domestic applications are virtually unbeatable.

It may be difficult to accept that pro audio companies can make the best speakers, but the technology built into the Meyer for example, makes it almost peerless, and the ATC's aren't far behind.

When the engineering skills are equal an active speaker will always be better than a passive one. no matter how impressive the cabinet is.

Elite level speaker design is valid no matter what the application or market. I am I no way discounting some home speakers but cosmetics tend to drive the price up and many of the best speakers are made by people who are not strong marketers.

Kharma are Waaaaaaaay over-priced in the US which makes the susceptable to these kind of comparisons.

The X-2 should be active, but its not, so it performs like a $30,000 speaker system, not a six figure one. Sure is pretty though.

Agreed :)

The examples given leave little doubt on the performance end, but there are several other options that are good enough to fall into the "subjective" choice category. Even $6000 Quads can do what they do as well as any speaker on the market.

For light jazz, classical ensemble, Quads with subwoofers would really push the best speakers in the world very hard to prove they had clear audio supremecy.

Onhwy61,

I'm always looking for the best speakers, what speakers demonstrate more advanced technology and performance than the speakers I listed?

B&O, Meridian? Give an example of what you consider SOTA so we can communicate.

For someone who had to pose the original question I'm convinced by your last post you have a definitive answer for me.

What would define state of the art performance for you? On a tight racetrack, Go Karts often own the track record. So when we are discussing something open ended like SOTA sound in small rooms what does it need to cost and what parameter can't be reached that it must cost so much In your mind?

List a system that pushes the envelope of ultimate sound quality more than the Meyer/EMM/Esoteric P10 system.

"If you concede better bass extension to another system, then how can it truly be SOTA?"

Well 10hz for the VSR and 20hz -6 for the Meyer and 25hz -6 for the ATC. We'd have to open the discussion for how much bass extension we need in a speaker system. And both the ATC and Meyer have Subwoofers to add on. VSR has them built in.

'Your last question is basically my original question, but with a different assumption about the answer"

No, I didn't ask your question over. I was asking you why you selected that system to compare to my systems. What was it that triggered a comfort level in you to conclude it was better than my examples?

I Strictly wanted your opinion on that matter and still do.

I would highly recommend reading about the X-10 and the ATC SCM-150. I wish ATC wouldn't have taken down all the technical data off their site, which showed some very impressive (important) specs for their drivers and systems. Meyer's site has more info on their X-10 which is very high tech. What do you think the impulse response of the VSR speaker looks like with 13 drivers mounted front and back on each side?

I made no assumptions other than that manufacturer specs are accurate on their site and I'm using a known source for the assessment of the VR-11.

Nrchy,

I made no assessment of Lakefrontroads system other than to ask why it is assumed its better than the Meyer X-10 or ATC SCM-150's?

Yeah I do know a great deal about how systems sound because its my job, see you're a hobbyist, it doesn't matter if you know or not, you're suiting yourself. The problem is hobbyists have grown use to the dealer not being very useful to them. Now it seems when a dealer actually knows what he is talking about its become offensive. Especially when it doesn't fit the cliche audiophile argument(CD sound, measuring systems etc.). I'm very direct because i don't type very fast and i don't have time to make a flowery feel good response all the time.

People seem to think this audio stuff is difficult to pin down but I find it quite easy. Is Albert Von Schwiekert going to make a speaker that sounds completely different than the ones that have come before? Of course not, so why if I know what drivers are being used and what Albert shoots for in playback, why wouldn't I know pretty much what Lakefrontroads system will sound like? or what a Krell amplifier with kharma's in a room with light wood paneling will sound like? I've been there before, not your exact system but close enough to know why you would complain about CD quality.

Sorry for knowing my business but 60-70 hours a week its what I do and then its my hobby :).

If you say so chief. You're the expert.