What do we hear when we change the direction of a wire?


Douglas Self wrote a devastating article about audio anomalies back in 1988. With all the necessary knowledge and measuring tools, he did not detect any supposedly audible changes in the electrical signal. Self and his colleagues were sure that they had proved the absence of anomalies in audio, but over the past 30 years, audio anomalies have not disappeared anywhere, at the same time the authority of science in the field of audio has increasingly become questioned. It's hard to believe, but science still cannot clearly answer the question of what electricity is and what sound is! (see article by A.J.Essien).

For your information: to make sure that no potentially audible changes in the electrical signal occur when we apply any "audio magic" to our gear, no super equipment is needed. The smallest step-change in amplitude that can be detected by ear is about 0.3dB for a pure tone. In more realistic situations it is 0.5 to 1.0dB'". This is about a 10% change. (Harris J.D.). At medium volume, the voltage amplitude at the output of the amplifier is approximately 10 volts, which means that the smallest audible difference in sound will be noticeable when the output voltage changes to 1 volt. Such an error is impossible not to notice even using a conventional voltmeter, but Self and his colleagues performed much more accurate measurements, including ones made directly on the music signal using Baxandall subtraction technique - they found no error even at this highest level.

As a result, we are faced with an apparently unsolvable problem: those of us who do not hear the sound of wires, relying on the authority of scientists, claim that audio anomalies are BS. However, people who confidently perceive this component of sound are forced to make another, the only possible conclusion in this situation: the electrical and acoustic signals contain some additional signal(s) that are still unknown to science, and which we perceive with a certain sixth sense.

If there are no electrical changes in the signal, then there are no acoustic changes, respectively, hearing does not participate in the perception of anomalies. What other options can there be?

Regards.
anton_stepichev

Showing 7 responses by perkri

@OP   

Back to the blind test, as per your request.

Not exactly a blind test, but this example is close enough. Been building a LOT of speakers during the past year with a friend. We tune them (damping/stuffing/crossover) first based on what we have noticed that worked well on previous speakers. The we live with them for a while before we listen critically. We look for problems, what is missing, what is too loud. Then, we put the two side by side and run a mono signal through. One is kept original, the other has the mods done. We alternate sitting and listening with standing and switching from L-R so we can A/B the speakers. Because the signal is in mono, and because the speakers are right next to each other, we are in a big room and sit far enough back so identifying which speaker is making the sound is difficult. Is it a blind test? No, does it allow us to listen for differences in the two speakers? Yes. This happens a couple of times until we feel we have the speakers sounding as best they can given the drivers being used. The very last A/B session, we are dealing with very tiny adjustments. Most would not be able to differentiate between the two if they were not told what to listen for at this point. We can hear it because we know what we are listening for, a specific tone or timbre to a particular part of music.

Would these differences matter to most people at the end? No, probably not as the source, amp and room will over ride what we have done in the final steps. 

But the difference is there. I would like to think that if the same two speakers were side by each, in the same room, with me not having been part of the tuning, that I would be able to pint out the differences. Something I have in fact done with speakers he has worked on with me not being part of the process. 

Two speakers, mono, side by side being A/B'd with no knowledge of what was done to one or the other, I could tell the difference, and describe what the differences were and what was causing them.

Not sure I am a believer of the full double triple extra secret super blind test.

So, pull someone random off the street. Blindfold them. Take them into a listening room. Explain nothing, no context what they are there for. Play music. A/B the wires. Don't tell them what you did with the wires. Ask them to describe the differences. They couldn't. How could they? They wouldn't  know what to listen for or have the vocabulary to describe.

This is a simple enough exercise for anyone to do. Have a friend come over (when it is safe to do so...) and have them swap out cables on your own set up and see if you can hear a difference. Leave the room, swap the cables, come back and listen. Repeat. Same music, same volume, same seating position,same everything, just different wires.

No one, is going to be able to prove anything to a naysayer with measurements or blind tests. It has to be tried in ones own system. But they will never try... 

And this of course requires that the system be good enough to reveal the subtle differences, otherwise, it's a waste of time.
The only people I know of who run wires in reverse do so in the basements of churches. Apparently, they hear some pretty dark stuff...

I find the idea of listening to an entire spool of wire a very interesting idea. Always appreciated/enjoyed calculus. The whole idea of what happens when you look at something at its infinite limit. Is it zero, one or infinity.

At some point, at some length, if that wire was polled out all in the same direction during manufacturing process, it becomes a little easier to grasp how directionality becomes something that would be readily identifiable.

Would be very interested in doing that experiment. Also curious how that spool effects the SQ - being that a spool is an inductor?

Look what happens moving speakers a few inches in any direction in your room. Run a 50hz tone through them, walk around and note where the signal drops out, becomes a droning mess or is crystal clear. Move the speakers a few inches, try it again. It makes a difference.

I listen to the radio - a lot. Some days, the signal is so clear I absolutely love listening to the SQ coming out of my tuner. Other days, there is so much static and noise its just an exercise in frustration. And then, if the muting is on, walking around the room will make the signal appear and disappear.

Everything has an impact on how something sounds. And not everything that has an impact on SQ can be measured. Roller blocks under gear for example. What is the measurement there?

Why do certain tubes sound the way they do? Same tube type, different manufacturer, same measurements, different SQ.

It ain’t magic, although it might as well be given how some NEED the measurements on anything in order for it to be real.

Could be, some systems, and the rooms they are in are just not conducive to being able to hear any differences this small - they get lost in the noise of the space. Or, the listener is unable to discern any difference, either because of physical limitations, lack of knowing what to listen for or some other reason. Look at people trying to taste the difference between wines. Some don’t get it at all. Some sommeliers are sooooo good, and have studied so much that they can identify the sub region where a wine came from and when it was produced.
@OP  

Well, how do you think Riedel has established themselves at the forefront of wineglass design? The shape of the bowl, the height of the glass, the angle of the sides and the size of the opening.

All designed to deliver maximum satisfaction from a particular type of wine. Sugar, alcohol, tannins all factor into how the flavour travels through your mouth/nose.

So yeah, the shape of the glass matters
@dletch2

Clearly you have a deep and profound understanding of wine, wine making and how the process of drinking it works.

They make a glass for pretty much every kind of wine and some spirits.

Because of my varied previous life, career and interests, I have had the good fortune of travelling to many wine regions. I also have many friends who are winemakers/vineyard owners - both in North America and in Italy. We would spend our summers on a vineyard in Tuscany.

Riedel was the groundbreaker in wine glass design. Don’t get me wrong, there is a time and place for lo-fi wineglasses, as are commonly used everywhere. Table wines... But, if a special vintage is to be enjoyed to its fullest, the appropriate glass enhances the experience especially when paired with the "right" meal.

Synergy. Kind of like audio systems. Lo-fi systems that have their time and place when filling a room with sound is the purpose. But when listening is to be a "lose yourself in the moment, meditative experience", subtleties matter.

The law of diminishing returns applies to a system just as it applies to anything else




These voice activated devices are truly amazing.

Now, if you have a radio on, at voice level volume, with a talk radio station on, and you have two people having a conversation in the room while you say "Hey Alexa", it’ll activate, no doubt. Now try to ask it something with the all that ambient playing, theres going to be a bunch of "Sorry, I didn’t understand that"...
"We got a set of Zalto glasses as a gift. I understand these are near the penultimate for varietal stemware. I do really like them, but I think we are now at the level of boutique cables. People claim they are better because they are told they are, just like my cheap clay cups."

Clay is great, just difficult to wash... May color the taste with a bit of "earthiness" I fear. Not sure thats the point of terroir.

Guess I'm an open minded sceptic. All i know for sure, is if I haven't experienced it, I've just imagined it. And as I have an active imagination, its not something I like to have run amok - usually brings me somewhere unpleasant. So, I like to try things before I pass judgement on what something does/is supposed to do.




Audioholics on Youtube has 150,000 followers

There are also a lot of people that think the earth is flat.

More people thinking something doesn't make it a fact.