What do defective phono tubes sound like?


I have noticed some rather loud energy discharges when playing LP's.Sort of an abrupt popping.Not unlike static discharge.I do not get this with my digital playback.
The ONLY change made to my system lately has been a new arm.The problem began immediately "after" it's installation.It was just fine with the previous arm.

I don't want to make this an "arm" mfgr thing(and will not mention arm name)but wonder if the phono tubes in use(very NOS Siemens CCa's,with low hours)can be the culprit.

This is making me pull my hair out,and I have little already.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
sirspeedy

Showing 12 responses by sirspeedy

Btw,getting a "new" arm and "new" arm cable...that shoud put an end to it...whew!
Best to "almost everyone"! -:)
Atmosphere,your thoughtful/educated response has saved me sweat,and a good deal of headscratching.Thanks alot for being such a decent fellow hobbyist.
Best
Thanks to all,so far.Originally the problem blew a fuse,and cap in my table's electronics.Got a brand new table(Sota is an amazingly fine company to deal with,and really care about their customer base....BIG TIME).
I spoke to my arm supplier,and was met with sincere concern,but I simply cannot believe my luck is SO bad,that it is arm related.The cable is not played around with alot,and I am very careful about stuff like this.Ditto for the tube sockets!

My frustration is that my friends all know just how fanatical I am about proper maintenance,and component care.All is plugged into an Exact Power EP-15a/Ultrapure,which seems just fine.My CD player plays perfectly.

Of course "now" the pricey(yes I have quite a few back up sets)NOS Siemens tubes are "very suspect",but I am really beginning to feel "worn out" from the diagnostics.I have really sweated alot over this latest fiasco!

Mainly since I have a business,and don't have alot of time(in this economy) to frigg around with such expensive stuff.Actually,I have played around SO much in the recent past,that I just want to get back to normalcy again(like hearing LP's)....."Will this ever happen for me"?That's what I have started asking myself,as I have spent a load of bucks,and time on the hobby as of late,and am feeling the New York Jets curse.

My CD sound is consistent though,so I do have music,but "MAN" I now have such great analog stuff,and I keep running up against this damn roadblock of noise/sudden discharge.In a dedicated room,with dedicated lines yet!!OOOOOHH!!!!Frustration!

I have decided to take off Tuesday,and roll up my sleeves,for some real(dreaded) diagnostics.Tube swaps will be on tap,but it "does" seem odd the problem began the instant the new arm arrived.....Hmmmm?

So,right now it can be a few different things...tubes(hopefully),one of my power cables(doubtful),the arm cable(doubtful),a line conditioner(aren't these supposed to stop this kind of stuff?),phonostage(I would not really mind this,as I would then upgrade to new Teflon caps,so I'd probably be ahead of the curve).Or the new arm itself,but "that" would be a new one to me!!

Now I know why I've been looking hard at the Acoustic Guitar mags as of late(used to be a flat picker).Those limited edition Martins look SOOO nice.....We'll see!

Best to all.
Jloveys,first off--what an interesting table you have put together!I have some friends who will be very interested in your mod.

Secondly,I won't consider a "happy ending" until I have spun some vinyl for a few,unimpeded listening sessions.

Then joy!
Once again thanks for the interest in my dilemma.
Jloveys,my entire system is on regenerated A/C,and dedicated lines,so something like a "refrigerator" kicking in should not be a cause.If I need to go to "that" level of forensics to diagnose a problem,then I think my time in the hobby may be running out.

Doug,nice to hear from you,as you always seem to have some inner input that I might find interesting.Yes,I have checked almost everything you mention,with the exception of tube sockets.
This will be addressed this week.My new cartridge worked flawlessly with my previous arm,so that is out of the equation.I just cannot see how anything about the arm can be the culprit,but who knows,and I have gone out of my way to be respectful of the mfgr.I hope this does not backfire on me!
One "serious" concern is if I blow my tweeters,there is NO replacement for them,as Avalon is looking for a new supplier,and mine are not made anymore.I cannot "live" without "this" speaker,it is "that good",so I shudder when I power up under these circumstances,even with a very low volume setting.
Of course the more I think about this,the more obvious it seems that the tubes are the culprit(only three),but I am guarded here,as I am getting quite insecure about reliability these days."These" super systems are really quite complex,when looked at closely.
You know how happy I was with my old arm,and "if" it is the new one,which took me three months to get(without the old arm,as it was sold to finance the "new")I am going to be a "very unhappy camper".I have had alot of analog down time,since selling my "as you know",beloved previous arm(there is a lesson here).
I really need to put some finality on my upgrade path,and go back to being an LP collector/spinner again!
Of course I DO realize this will all come to a happy ending(I hope)but right now I'm about as down on the hobby as ever.I'm also(really)getting more of a workout Fotzing around with my set-up,than I get in the two hrs I spend at the gym,four times a week.

Best to all
Doug,I'd be ALOT happier if I could identify the problem.Usually this is very easy for me,but "this" is getting tiresome.

Also,I hate the thought of blaming the arm,unless I am certain it is the cause,but let's face it,everything was "honky dory" until I made the swap.If it turns out to be a wiring problem in my new arm I'll not be happy,as I was SO patient/understanding regarding it's acquisition.I'm sure you know what I mean.
Obviously,as I now still have the "pop,pop" noise issue,I can rule out the new table.

Question(to anyone)...can faulty arm wiring(in actual tonearm) cause a fuse to blow in a table's power supply,as well as a cap in the control section of the table(this happened in the old(really fairly new)table?My phonostage has 70 db of gain,and the cartridge's output is .48mv,so maybe enough transient distortion can cause this????

BTW,anyone considering a new table,who likes the stuff Sota offers(superb actually)....here is something "incredibly" rare in the hobby.....
When Kirk,of Sota,heard of my table being stricken,he felt so bad that he gave me a new Cosmos,just to take the table out of the equation!!
The guy is INCREDIBLE!!,but there is more.....

The new Cosmos is SO much more "refined/precise/flawless in every way" than my previous(superb series IV)one,it really deserves to be called a "series five".
It is almost as quiet as my CD player,even with the pump for vacuum.I really cannot convey how much effort went into this new table,and it is clear the mfgr went out of his way to do everything he can,in a situation like this one.
Btw,words cannot express how greatful I am,and how far superior this "very latest" Cosmos is "over" the previous
Cosmos was."IT" too was a series IV,but the new table smokes it in precision,and attention to detail.

It is appropriate I mention this,as great customer service is why U.S. mfgrs enjoyed success over the years,and now some are threatened by foreign interests.I doubt one can have such an intimate relationship with mfgrs a continent away.At the very least,it would not be "this" easy,and right now "the hassle factor" is not on my agenda!
THIS new/gorgeous table is one thing I have to look forward to,"if" I can iron out my problems.I did not know the meaning of quiet,in a table,until I set this up Thursday.
Best.
Stilty,the phonostage can be had,I think.The tubes are most suspect as of now.

As to the arm....I am not so sure about that,due to circumstances which my loyalty may have attributed to.One reason why "if" it is the arm(and it is not taken care of promptly)I will be "peeved"!!

As I said,I am taking a day off Tuesday,to rol up my sleeves on this.
Thanks to ALL for actually giving a darn!
Atmosphere thanks So much for the advice.

Audiofeil,you expose yourself again,as a total jerk,but I've been aware of that for some time.Thanks for the kind words anyway.

Best
Jloveys,the apparent solution was what Atmosphere mentioned.He has superb experience,and is very well intentioned.I thought through his comments,and it coincided with my dilemma(I'd not been able to spin vinyl for about six months,due to what I thought was going to be an upgrade,with all the back orders,and reliability issues....this should end soon).The arm mfgr realised this too,and was very open to a "new" arm and cable.

thanks for the concern
Hmm?I experienced that too!Yet,now I have new headaches.
This is becomming as much fun as the last five miles of a marathon -:)....
Atmosphere,I had noticed my pre giving me some noise,"now" when playing CD's Friday night.The vol control started sounding "whoosh/static like" sounding,as I moved the nob(even a little).
Then,as I stopped CD play,and just moved the vol control to hear what the story was,it (the pre)gave a pop,and I could not get anymore output!!
I simply decided to wait a few days,so as to not get upset,as I've been experiencing too many hassles.
Could the table/arm "ground problem"(if it actually was the arm ground,and not the pre all along) have caused the pre to die on me?...."Oye vey",is this getting annoying!!

Thanks
Atmosphere,as always great input from you.Some day I'll introduce myself to you,at a trade show.The nice glass of wine will be on me. -:)
Best