What defines a good tonearm

i'm convinced that of pivoted arms, only a unipivot has the potential to work ideally. that's because anything not a unipivot will always be fighting itself to travel the groove correctly.

as always, reaching a theoretical potential is challenging, and a gimbaled arm might be enough better executed to surpass a less than optimal unipivot with more theoretical upside.

after observing the development process of the unipivot Talea 1 and 2 in the company of the Rockport linear tracker, and the Reed, among other gimbaled arms....there is absolutely no doubt that unipivot will rule the roost as time goes by....if not already.

all the issues of any cartridge instability in a unipivot will be overcome completely.

as far as defining a good tonearm, it's simple.

a good tonearm is one where you don't hear any tonearm effects, just music. all the tonearm distortion is gone.

hi Lew,

my perspective is that the most significant percieved and discussed weakness of a unipivot is actually it's biggest advantage, which is the freedom to wiggle. it is the micro and nano wiggling following the groove unimpeded that gives it the advantage over a fixed/gimbaled bearing pivoted arm which on the micro and nano level cannot follow the groove as well.

to take full advantage of the conceptual and theoretical advantages of unipivot is an engineering hill to climb. but along the way to the top of that hill i think the very best unipivots have already passed the best fixed/gimbaled arms.

i do think that 'back in the pack' it's hard to choose from different design approaches as execution is more significant than concept......and there are so many varibles in arm construction.

but at the cutting edge it's unipivot and then everything else.

So Mikelavigne, what do you think is the current state of the art in unipivot arms and why?

ok. but first, a caution that i'm an observer of performance and maybe even process, but really no technical guy at all. like anyone that is around all this nice gear i have some level of understanding of cause and effect but only 'some'. so me telling someone 'why' something does something is of limited value.

all that said; the very best arms i have heard are the Durand Talea 1 and Talea 2 in my system, in other systems, and at shows. i would also add the Continuum Cobra to these 2. i've heard the Cobra 5 different times at audio shows.

i cannot say whether the Talea 2 betters the Cobra or vicsa versa as i've not heard them side by side. but i do hear similar type things from both, and those things are unique. so i'd say these are the current state of the art. with these 2 arms you hear the least arm distortion.

the music leaps from the grooves without added coloration, note development is more complete, micro-dynamics are un-fettered, bass is deep and tonally rich, you have a vivid clarity and delicacy, the music gets in you and is experiential.

the Rockport Sirius III linear tracker approaches close to these arms in some ways, is not as close in some ways, is slightly better in a few ways.

why do the Talea and Cobra do what they do?

i think they have the correct design concept, and have considerable techincal development and quality of manufacturing and assembly to be more optimal of the concept than other unipivots i've heard.

these are simply my observations of the situation and my conclusions.

to be clear, i've never claimed any specific tonearm as best, only the 'best i've heard'. what i wrote;

the very best arms i have heard are the Durand Talea 1 and Talea 2 in my system, in other systems, and at shows. i would also add the Continuum Cobra to these 2. i've heard the Cobra 5 different times at audio shows.

i never said or intimated i'd heard most or all tonearms. i've heard quite a few if i include various shows.

i did offer my opinion that i felt strongly that unipivots will turn out to be the ultimate tonearm design approach and stick by that.

i had the Triplaner VII in my system on 3 different tt's over three years compared directly with the Reed 2A, Schroeder Ref SQ, Reed 2P, and then the Talea 1 and Talea 2. each tt had 2 arm boards and although i used multiple different cartridges mainly i used 2 A90's and the Allnic H3000 with 2 identcal inputs for direct comparisons.

i liked the Triplaner better overall than the Schroeder Ref SQ. simply more energetic and once optimized, more detailed. the Triplaner is an excellent arm, although it took quite a few different tweaks and multiple sessions to get it to sing.

a couple other local friends also used the Triplaner and thought highly of it.

the Reed 2A came along and bettered the Triplaner head to head on a couple of different cartridges. more detail, more space, more solid images, more precision. the Reed 2P even slightly better. then the Talea 1 went further and the Talea 2 even better.

all this time i had the Rockport sitting there as a constant reference. and i had multiple phono stages.

other friends have had the same experience.

which is not to say that the Triplaner is not an excellent tonearm. but; it has been passed by in overall performance by others. not sure how long it's been since the basic Triplaner design has been seriously tweaked, but performance does inevitably move forward.

disclosure; i'm not a dealer for any of these arms.

Dan_ed is right, whether he is a dealer or not.

Ralph wrote;

Mike and Dan, I assume that both of you have LPs that you recorded yourself and released commercially. What is the title of the LP? I'd like to get a copy.

i have your Lp (or at least one of your Lps), and respect your dramatically greater all around music/hifi experience compared to myself. although i'm no professional music guy in any way shape or form, i have had a bunch of pro audio guys record off my tt, and then do a commercial digital release with that recording.

i'm just a guy who observes and offers opinions on what i hear and then sometimes likes to connect the dots on what that might mean. i do have a ring side seat to some pretty amazing tonearm development that has openned my eyes to cause and effect way beyond what my previous viewpoints might have been.

i did use my Rockport as a reference for anything to do with a turntable, but now i use my Studer A820, Ampex ATR-102 and collection of master dubs. these are helpful as a reference to have sitting there.

it's still just subjective perceptions and resultant conclusions and not scientific facts were are considering here. i'm just speaking about what i think i hear and how my mind interprets it.

i'll leave it at that.

Dear Mike, Did you actually hear a difference between a Reed 2A and a Reed 2P? I thought the only difference between those two was the fine-ness of the VTA adjustment up and down.

Lew, my first Reed was not designated 'A' and in fact was somewhat 'prior' model to official North American import, then my next Reed was an 'A' but without the azimuth adjustment. then i got 2 of the '2P's.

the sound of the first one was not quite as good as the others, not as precise and refined; i think it's bearing was not quite as good. then my 'A' was short the azimuth adjustment.

i felt that the 2P's sounded a small bit better than the 'A', but likely that is the azimuth adjustment, which can be acquired with the 'A'. also, with the VTA lever of the 2P's, it was easier to dial in VTA.

so good catch, it was probably wrong to assign a ranking of Reed's without considering the azimuth adjustment for both....as they ought to sound the same assuming maybe more time for dial in with the 'A'.

I just wanted to get a copy.

right. :^)