My ears tell me that digital can be satisfactory on certain types of music where there is less musical information and dynamic swings. Even then when compared to a great vinyl set-up it misses the mark on the air surounding instruments as noted above. This is a really big deal for me in absolute context of listening to music where there is more of a believability factor.
I keep on hearing how digital is getting better and suppose it is but I haven't been willing to spend the dough to get something that will be obsolete or bettered at half the price a few years later. You don't get that with vinyl. Money spent today on a carefully put together set-up will hold its own down the road. I can't say I've heard enough digital front ends to make any kind of judgement on where the current SOTA is but I can say I highly doubt any digital front end regardless of price will compete with a top notch vinyl front end.
The litmus test in comparing should be a great recording of an orchestra..... i.e. Chicago Symphony Orchestra Fritz Reiner "Scherezade" originally released by RCA, subsequently by Chesky and Classic records... with all the dynamic shadings and complex harmonic tones. Someone please direct me to a digital device that can convey the air and natural tone of massed strings that one hears live and is only approached by vinyl? I haven't heard it to this day but it would be nice to know it such a digital product exists. |
"The reference standard for this I've heard is DCS Puccini on a very high end tube system running Magico Mini's"
Well Mapman, thats what I was afraid of. But even so if it gets close, real close, it is really nice to know that maybe someday, somehow there will be a trickle down effect to the common audiophile and music lover. I do have faith that this will happen, maybe not in SACD/CD format but digital streaming downloads...who knows what tomorrow will bring. You just gotta believe!
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Muralman1 thanks for the link to the review.
Mapman I have checked out the mhdt NOS DACs and the reviews. It seems all the reviewers came to the same consensus concerning the sonic characteristics of these DACs, excellent build quality, lack of digital etchiness, natural presence and timbre accuracy seem to be the consistent theme here. There is also the top of the line Havana which also uses a tube buffered output as well as the Paradisea 3. Looks quite promising especially at the price point. Thanks for your input.
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Thanks for the info Mapman. I will weigh this in my decision as I am seriously considering trying one of these units for the hell of it. I sure haven't been convinced as closely as this to anything else I've read or listened to lately at this price point. |
Mapman I received the Mhdt Havana yesterday. It was shipped from Taiwan on Friday, can you believe that?!
This DAC reminds me of a great SET amp except it is extended in the upper frequencies, well I should say my system really permits this with this DAC without any irritating digital artifacts. The natural decay of instruments and the ability to focus in on the performance rather that the sound is quite remarkable. The experience reminds me of years ago listening to the beautiful Joule OTL operating at zero feedback with my vinyl rig. Huge soundstage (more of a wow factor than anything musically important to me), great transparency,liquid without sounding dark and syrupy, tonally it really nails it which permits total involvement with the music without any desire to critically dissect the sound, this is a good sign.
I haven't heard many new ones lately but I do believe for the price this DAC in the right system is quite a performer that has a sense of continuousness similar to really good analog, at least in my set-up. It is about the music for sure. Thank you for making me aware of Mhdt, it is a very special piece. |
Muralman I don't know exactly what you mean by more spark. I don't want the above comments to reflect an opinion that digital has finally arrived at where vinyl has evolved to. I'm not too sure about that but I can say this DAC does a lot of things right including the timing cues that you hear in live music and great analog and separates a performance from good sound. I really felt that listening to some CD's was for the first time and it didn't make any difference whether they were great or mediocre recordings. The Havana gets the timing right like analog. Further listening is in order to make more critical judgements on its absolute performance with regard to air above and around instruments which is one of the hallmarks of great analog IMHO. I suspect that the unit needs some breakin before I can determine what it is truly capable of.
As one of the above posters above Kjo notes, the Audio Aero Capitol is very analog sounding. It is probably the best digital I have heard to date in an extremely resolving system. I'm sure there is as good or better but the key here is to have a system capable of hearing these subtle differences as Muralman notes. This is important as the source is only as good as what follows. I do have a sense of what I have read in this thread that NOS DACs may be a great solution in some systems but may not work in all. I doubt one size fits all but I can say in my highly evolved all tube system which has been a work in progress over the past 10 years it works well indeed. |
Oh btw Muralman as follow up to your Listz comments above. Last night I pulled out a Mercury Living Presence remastering of Ennesco and Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies compliation Antal Dorati conducting the London Symphony Orchestra, haven't listened to it in years and certainly never heard it like this, let me tell you! The 2nd Rhapsody was quite mind boggling in the way this DAC presented the dynamic contrasts in this piece which is really a piano piece. The opening grabs you in the gut, very rich, tonally accurate organic presentation.
On really great piano recordings I am hearing the dynamics and weight as never before on my previous lowly digital set-up but I must say is rivaling my vinyl rig. The verdict is still out on the high frequency performance compared to vinyl especially with orchestral music as I am still experimenting around and putting this DAC through the paces. Also ordered a few of the recommended tubes, we'll see but I am REALLY impressed now. |
"You have to really pay attention to all the possibilites that determine the resulting sound. Not easy"
This is true Mapman, agreed. I also agree with you concerning practical differences as well. How much does it matter? Practically I don't like the TT as well as the convenience of digital but I've never had a digital device that came close to fooling me into believing it is as good or ultimately as enjoyable. This one does and it may prove to be a moot point on how important the differences are when weighing all the practical matters. I will always listen to vinyl because I have so much good music on it not because I love the medium itself and the rituals involved in keeping it sounding optimum. Having said that i always enjoy listening to the music on vinyl. I have not listened to much digital over the past several years because it has been too fatiguing and absolutely not enjoyable, until now.
On a further note, I don't consider my system in any way SOTA but it is very well balanced with great resolution which has taken a lot of effort to get right with cables, vibration isolation and various tweeks. Most importantly it is well suited to my musical tastes. I am a huge proponent of vibration isolation with all especially source components. This can make a huge improvement. So there are plenty of things to try out with the Havana. It needs some burn in so I'm sure there will be some subtle changes in that area as well, we'll see.
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I understand what you are saying, never heard this adjective before.
So far as dynamic range, I dunno know about that Muralman, so far as dynamics. I've heard some pretty mind boggling analog front ends in that area. In any event even if digital is better in this area can it match it in the other areas previously discussed in the here and now in ways that matter? Or is is close enough that it really isn't that important. You have stated a very clear opinion on that and it certainly isn't lost on me.
I would love to hear Liszt on steroids on those Apogees of yours Muralman. You make a very persuasive argument aside from all the great fun watching you spear chucking with Audiofeil ;^) |
Oh course you are right Mapman, and I am referring to audiophile pressings as well as the Mercury and RCA's of old. There are many great recordings from that golden age. The decline was "dynagroove" and the like in the early to mid 60's. Many of the recordings are limited for the reasons you state. It is too bad that the technology of the playback of the time wasn't in step with the engineering and quality of pressings, especially in the 50's when the LP was in its infancy. When recordings and console stereos became the norm in households there was that need for a standard and the recordings suffered.
In reality there is no theoretical limit to the dynamic potential of vinyl playback. I agree with you that on certain music and for sound effects digital can do things vinyl can't. The important thing so far as dynamics in my comparing the two is the gradations between say from pianissimo to a rising cresendo or in the other direction and lending a believability that what you are hearing is almost real. Too much dynamic emphasis is an exaggeration and typically a product of a system imbalance but it is also an effect that some want to hear. Telarc really exploited this with their early recordings. I have a few. I certainly never heard anything like these recordings in a concert hall. It is the micro dynamics and the shifts. Digital in general never did this convincingly to my ears but a few times in other systems but I am now hearing this effect with the Havana all the while maintaining the tonality and natural decay in the soundfield, that continuousness. The Havana presents these dynamics gradations extremely convincingly although I'm sure some would want to hear more "detail", the music is all there to my ears. That final gap between real and playback is the real space and air that will probably never be realized, we just get a bit closer. My real excitement about this whole experience is that really decent digital playback has seemingly arrived at a reasonable price point.
I still have some great vinyl piano recordings that I doubt will be equaled by any of my digital recordings but this still remains to be seen. The Havana is DEFINITELY going through a breakin. This is generally apparent in most but not all electronics in my experience but in this particular piece I am hearing an IMPROVEMENT, not change, in weight and body which adds a greater sense of realism when there are large dynamic shifts in the music. I suspect this is much of what I am hearing and it is impressive but still subjective in this discussion. |
"Those old vinyl hifi recordings and CD remasters of old stuff that never really sounded so great back then all sounds better than ever to me these days"
Then again maybe its them ole ears, eh Mapman? I hear ya:) |
