Kalan:
One more thing. My rack is the Finite Elemente Spider -- which doesn't have any shelves to speak of. The equipment sits on elastometers that fit onto the wooden legs of the stand, so there's no sound bouncing between shelves. Ingenious solution, I must say! The equipment sits in "open air," so to speak. Nice rack, much better than the Billy Baggs, which sounds "dark" by comparison, and "heavier," too. The music seems freed up on the Spider and more delicate. |
My experience mirrors that of the poster who suggested that the preamp's sound is just a bit lean. There is also a slight bite in the upper midrange/lower treble that has not ever disappeared, regardless of the fact that I've used different speakers systems, amps, interconnects, speaker cables, power cords and source. It's very good sonically, but the "colors" of the orchestra are not as rich as they should be. By the way, I've used 6922, 7308, 6DJ8 tubes, and the sonic signature is the same. Very low noise floor, but sometimes that happens by thinning out the sound. I recall the bass is not as powerful as, in fact, earlier stages, which can contribute to the impression of "faster" bass, but the mid/upper bass and lower midrange, for example, on a singer are less dimensional than in earlier (pre-2004) upgrades. |
One other thing: I was reading an old TAS where Gordin Rankin of Wavelength was interviewed. He made the statement that he decided not to use Holco resistors because they had a slight "edge." This may contribute to that "bite" in the upper midrange I hear when brass is blown hard. Interestingly, that's the ONLY instrument that displays the edge, although the string section seems not quite as dimensional as it should be, too. |
Presence Deluxe MK. II, updated 2004. I am aware of the Vishay resistors and their strengths.
As far as the tubes, none of them changed the "bite." The 7308 tubes are warm, but this just softened information. The 6922 Amperex PQ USA gold pins are the most detailed, but bite? Still there.
Your information about the Presence model and the Holcos is exactly my point concerning the "edge": that Rankin decided to use Shinko resistors because he thought "the Holcos had a slight edge to them..." I'm curious about the possibility that changing to the next higher model, which utilizes Vishay, may eliminate the edge. |
Tvad:
I don't mind anyone suggesting that it might be other components. Unfortunately, that's not the case. I've changed every single component in the chain and the brashness is there on nearly every record with brass instruments (but only on forte and up passages). And it's not the amp clipping, either. I even thought it might be the equipment stand ringing, so I changed that, too. It's still there. I've even borrowed equipment that is well balanced, such as the Ayre CD player, and it's still there. Of course, some may think it's the recordings, but I don't think so.
I just read another thread in which the CAT and the FS were compared. The poster posited that the CAT had more lower midrange energy, and this is part of the frequency where the "richness" of instruments come through (and of course, the midbass). The FS sounds less rich in the midbass even using an old JVC CD player and they have too MUCH midbass, so there shouldn't ever seem to be a "leanness" in that frequency with the older JVCs. I think the older FS units were actually a bit richer in the upper bass/lower midrange, whereas the newest MK II is perhaps more "transparent." However, that transparency, to my ears, thins out the body of instruments, much as Rackon says. I mean, let's be logical, too: no component is perfect, and this just happens to be where the FS deviates from neutrality. Not a problem, per se, but it doesn't sound as dimensional as my older FS unit did. |
Here's the thread, by a First Sound Presence Deluxe MK. II with 4.0 power supply ( a step up from mine). Notice he notices the lack of "sweetness" in the First Sound also.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1088683556&read&keyw&zzfirst+sound |
And here I come again to address Drubin's curiosity about my "preamp of choice." I don't really have one at this point. And I still own my First Sound; it's just that occasional glare bothers me more then it once did. I think some of that is that I once thought it was the amp or equipment stand, until I replaced the stands to Neuance platforms, Zoethecus and even Ikea Lack tables (the Billy Baggs racks ring something fierce! I find it hard to believe that the Absolute Sound recommended them: they must have cotton in their ears, seriously! All you have to do is tap the top of the stand and it'll ring).
Some of the things I notice about the First Sound are recent.
Some of the rest of the system: Accuphase amp, Hurricanes, and about 10 speaker systems including the Genesis 6.1s for two months. Other components include Nordost Valhalla interconnect/speaker cable; Shunyata speaker cable/interconnects; Transparent speaker cable/interconnects (and each company's respective power cords, including the Valhalla power cords, Transparents top of the line power cord, and Shunyatas Pythons). Several different front ends: JVC 1010 and 1050 and 1010 modified, Sony DVP 9000ES and Philips SACD 1000 as well as an Arcam FMJ 23 (never, ever glaring up top!). Turntables, too....
I'd love to know why brass glares on the system, but haven't found an answer. Changed plug polarity and everything.
I think the link I included where the poster, who owns both the CAT and the FS, and said the FS never sounds "sweet" is on the mark. It's a very "clear" component, but it seems, in the most recent incarnations, to have lost some of the sweetness it might have had. My linestage was an older one, and it was definitely "sweeter" than the Presence Deluxe Mk. II I now have. I think in eliminating some of the "electronic sound" that Emmanuel dislikes, he may have done away with some of the "tenderness" that music displays. Just my observations, of course. |
Rackon:
It's possible that the FS and the Valhalla aren't the best of friends, but in this system, it does show up regardless of the interconnects.
Trust me, Artg, I'd love nothing better than for the system to NOT sound a bit hard on brass crescendos. I just don't know what else I could change as every single components, tubes included, has been substituted into the system. It's a bit of a puzzle to me. I wondered if the OA 2 tubes could be going bad, as they're the only tubes I HAVEN'T changed in the preamp!
And, for those considering the First Sound, it is entirely possible that this may be an issue endemic only to MY particular preamp. Not this model, just, literally, the First Sound Presence that I own. And I've read the reviews and I've never noticed anyone mentioning this. Unfortunately, my First Sound hasn't read the reviews, and it seems not to know it shouldn't sound edgy on Forte-level brass! |
Guidocorona, thanks for the suggestion that this might be what I'm hearing.
I suppose it's possible. It's just that it seems unlikely that it would show up on nearly every cd in the collection, especially given that I've had some of these cds since 1991, and have never heard this particular sonic trait before, and I've had some very revealing equipment in the "good ol' days." If it only showed up on several of the CDs, I would just chalk it up to the CDs themselves, but it appears pretty frequently. The oddest trait is how it's ONLY brass that causes this effect. I suppose it's still possible that the First Sound is showing this, but over the course of 20 years, I wouldn't think that the First Sound is the first high resolution preamp to demonstrate this.
In any case, I'm more interested in doing the detective work to find out what's causing it than getting another preamp. |
I see I've been away a while, and the thread has grown.
Kalan, I've had FIM outlets ever since I "returned" to the land of audiophilus nervosa, so that's not the issue.
I find it interesting that I've NEVER had this issue with brass before, not on any system I've ever had. I find it puzzling, but still don't know what's causing it. It's not as though it's horrifying: it's just noticeable on fortes.
I've already written Emmanuel, who suggested an upgrade to the Paramount, but I don't think I should have to upgrade to resolve this.
I'll just live with it for now... |
Kalan:
Ive used quite a few power cords. I think it isn't likely that that's the issue. Transparent, Nordost, Shunyata, PS Audio. If none of those work, that's not a compliment for the First Sound. Emmanuel, by the way, LIKES the Shunyatas, so that scenario doesn't work.
And you can be sure that I've covered all the bases with Emmaneul over line conditioners, and whether or not to use them with the FS (he says NOT).
The system integration suggestion may be the truth. I would then suggest that a preamp that can only work with very specific cords, interconnects, amps, etc. might be an issue in itself.
In case it is not clear, the earlier version of the FS sounded equally edgy, BUT it SEEMED more powerful from the upper bass down. That may have been the Shunyata King Cobras, of course. Hard to say.
In any case, the unit, which I do like, still seems leaner to me than it once did. It's my experience that leanness and extreme detail go together. Is yours different? |
