What affects timing in a system?

Hi Delancey - I am coming in late on this one, but lack of timing is usually due to smeering. Gross smeering is usually caused by vibration issues - such as the use of very compliant materials to support equipment or speakers (such as bladders, and other soft footers). If your speakers can sway back and forth (which is typical with Maggies) you will also have this kind of problem. Each of these tend to affect timing by robbing the music of upper-bass drive. With panel speakers, there is also the issue of precise alignment in the set-up, and the problems with incorrect set-up are also a smeering issue. But this effect is usually on the leading edges of all transients, and are most noticeable from the mid-range up. It sounds from the success you had that the problem was the latter not the former.

Sean and Tony thanks for your help. I took your advice and used a tape measure, level, SPL meter and a test CD. The new stands I have allow adjustment of tilt.

I found the same thing as you Tony, even a 1 degree change in the relative angle of the speakers and the sound was completely different. I found plumbness to be the biggest factor, followed by distance to the back wall.

Also I used a test CD to measure the 100Hz and 1,000Hz region and found that there was quite a difference in precieved timing as the 100Hz fell below the 1000Hz. I moved the speakers both back/forward and changed the tilt angle to dial in the sound.

I hope this info helps other Maggie 3.6 owners. In the end I am very happy with the results. I'm just scared to move anyting now....

Speaker placement should be exact with respect to left/right front/back and toe in. Also the maggies should be checked for the plumbness of the panels with respect to each other. If the speakers are off by even the slightest tiny bit it causes different phase problems at the listening positioning and results in poor subjective system timing. I hear this to be true especially in less than perfectly symetrical rooms. Over here I can intentionally alter one speaker's placement with regard to the other "microscopically" and seriously affect the rythymic involvement. When all is right and you reach that "room lock" the music will be very quick to you. Keep trying and don't give up. It does take a while and it is a real pain in the ass.

Since bass is the "foundation" of music ( drums and bass are the "rhthym section" of a band ), "tightening" or "thinning" of the lower frequencies will almost always reduce the "pace" of a system. That is, unless it was bloated to begin with. While the rest of the frequency range might sound sharper, more defined, etc.., losing tempo will almost always result in a system that just seems lacking and less "musical". Since everything else seems "right", it is sometimes hard to put a finger on exactly what is different.

My guess is that you now have a hole somewhere in the lower mid to bass region and this is what is robbing the apparent energy away from the music. Changing speaker elevation will ALWAYS alter the in-room frequency response. I would suggest using an SPL meter to take a look at the appr. frequency response of the system as it is now and then take readings with everything back to how you previously had it set up. While i know this might be a LOT of work, it will probably show you exactly what is different across the frequency range.

Doing something like this BEFORE making changes will document the exact results of any relocation or component swaps. This allows you to compare "before and after" data and can result in a more progressive flow towards beneficial system upgrades instead of "i'm not sure what happened" or "i THINK it helped" type of situations. Sean
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