meles: let me see if i have this right. you have a great well tempered tt "that costs almost nothing" and you're asking if "anyone [is] interested"? sure, if it's truly mint, i'll give you $50.00 for it, and even pay for shipping. deal? (i will need multiple jpegs.) -cfb |
Meles I'm not in the WellTempered club but follow this link to all of the archived forum posts containing reference to Well Tempered:
http://audiogo5.iserver.net/cgi-bin/fr_srch.pl?0&1&procsrch&3&4& |
I am interested. What are the details? |
Meles, I am very curious about your mods.
When I had one of the original WTT's ( which I was told had been made in Bruce's basement and used the early square motor ), I did the relatively inexpensive Peterson arm mod to very good effect. Two "free" mods that were very effective: removing enough of the silicone fluid so that the top of the paddle is exposed really opens up the soundstage; isolating the motor on a separate base or small sand-filled bag lowers background noise. BTW, I thought the WTT was the easiest to use, easy to set up, and most trouble free of any table I owned. |
I don't understand this post. You ask for tweaks and say you have tweaks but you don't mention or discribe the tweak.
What's up? |
Tweaks are usually easy, but not this one.
The principle of this tweak is to add an air suspension to the Well Tempered (this was done to a square motor C lassic). This is not the same as an expensive air isolation system (it may be better), nor is this similar to cheap versions of these systems put out by various manufacturers. This is definantly not the same as putting a bicycle inner tube under a component! After following these steps one will have a balanced air suspension horizontally tuned to around 1 Hz horizontally and 5 Hz vertically. One of my collaborators on this indicated that he had read that the infamously expensive Rockport turntables have a suspension tuned to 1 Hz in both dimensions. [There is an isolation device on the market for around $800 that does this, but it would not work well for turntables (Unipivot I believe).]
This sounds good so far, but now for the gory details:
1. Put the table on a flat surface with poster board underneath (a grocery sack works.)
2. Trace an outline of the table.
3. Using two 1 inch half cylinders or spheres (I used half of an industrial ferrite) and balance the table on two of these at the front and the back of the table. Mark the exact balance points on the outline of the table bearing in mind that these points will be connected by a line. Fo this step it would be good to have a typical record and clamp on the table.
4. Repeat the above from the sides. For the square motored classics you will have to have your balancing point in the cutout.
5. Remove the tables and connect the lines from side to side and front to back with a pencil. The intersection point is the center of mass of the table.
6. Now you must acquire 3 toy plastic footballs that can be blown up like a soccer or volley ball. The key here is an oblong inflatable device; spherical balls will just roll around once the table is in place. These toy footballs are typcial in size (about five inches long.) The compliance of the casing will be a factor. My collaborator was of the opinion that rubbery would be better than plasticy (more rigid material.) We used Treds toy footballs. (Please let me know if you find more of these, I am out.)
7. On your tracing locate three points, 180 degrees part, and as far away from the center as possible, while still supporting the table. You do not want the footballs bulging out around the sides of the table.
8. Place and afix trace to where the table will reside.\
9. Precisely place table on the footballs. Remember the point is to be balanced. It would be good to have a second person to verify correct placement. (Does anyone have any ideas how to place the table with absolute precision?) Obviously this is a critical step since if the table is not placed well, the setup will not be truly balanced. Also, it is extremely important to make sure that the surface you are placing the table on is balanced.
10. Balance the table by inflating and deflating the footballs. Here you will realize that you want your inflation nozels accessible.
11. Rigidly mount the motor so it can engage the belt. I used half ferrites. Cones may work well. I tried soft mounting. Rigid was better. Go for rigidity.
12. Play some vinyl.
13. Adjust the level of the footballs much like one does VTA. More air is higher and brighter, less air is lower and darker, and just right is a sweet spot more apparent than any optimum VTA setting. |
Hi Meles, I dont understand what you are trying to accomplish with this mod. Are you dissatisfied with the amount of feedback resistance? Are you trying to create a isolation platform? The Well Tempered was designed as a non seismic type table, for reasons of stability. If you try the fountainhead base, it will offer all of the immunity to feedback that anyone should need. Even the stock classic model seems to do an adequate job. Or is it that you are trying to change the inherent character of this product. |
My experience has been that the WT Classic (like the Rega P3) prefers to be set on a solid, heavy surface such as granite, marble or even acrylic. Currently, mine is set directly on a 1" thick piece of acrylic which, in turn, rests on a thin piece of closed-cell foam. All of this is in a shelf in a closet which rests on the cement slab (we don't have basements in Texas!). I am considering using 3 spiked feet in place of the stock rubber-tipped feet. This seems to be the opposite approach of Meles, but I've tried setting the table on a soft surface and seem to lose the focus and dynamic "snap" that I like about this table. Anybody have some some suggestions? Is it worth trying to also set the motor on some sort of sand bag?
Also, if I try three spiked feet, should they be placed where Meles places the three footballs? Meles, I'm a little unclear about how to place three balls 180 degrees apart from each other- do you mean 120 degrees?
Thanks, everyone
Jim |
Wouldn't it be a LOT easier just to get an inexpensive wall-mount tt shelf, and mount it to a concrete outer wall, preferably in an isolated environment (like a closet)?
For approximately $100, and maybe ten minutes of your time, you've got mechanical isolation that's about as good as it gets... |
Frap's above response get's to the very heart of the matter. This tweak inherently changes the character and design of the product. At the same time, we detected no dimunition in sound quality in any area with this tweak. Just a giant improvement in sound quality.
I've even had this table elevated on cinderblock towers along with the other electronics in a basement with speaker wires going up through the floor to the speakers. These extremes only slightly changed and improved the sound. Wall mount shelfs, spiked feet, etc. probably will only gain similar small improvements. The above tweak is a giant leap in comparison.
Why is this tweak so different. Again, Frap has it. This changes the design of the product. I don't think the results are surprising. Andy Payor (the Rockport designer) was a disciple of William Firebaugh. I think this accomplishes similar goals of the rockport designs, but by different means. To my ears (and I always notice first what I've lost, before what I've gained), this simply adds to the design. Sonically, it is a big addition to the design without any loss to the original traits that made this such a great table/arm combination.
NOTE: I won't be able to respond to additional posts until Monday. I will recount the improvements with my cohort in tweaking this weekend in order to describe the improvements in colorful journalistic terms. Have a great weekend everyone! May the audio force be with you! |
As promised, the improvement described in colorful journalistic terms:
Bass - a little more dynamic and controlled, but no large improvements. Improves a weak area for this turntable, but bass is still a weakness.
Highs - more extended transparent highs, greater resolving power as a result. Transparency and resolving power were weaknesses for this table, now they are a strength.
Midrange/timbre/overall - a strength of this turntable already. Harmonic detail is greatly improved, and this was the table's claim to greatness. Smoother sound overall. Fantastic timbral resolution and transparency rivaling the best. [Another improvement in this same area, somewhat more suttle to be sure, was achieved with a battery powered sinewave AC generator from Tom Port of Better Records (~$500 with batter.)]
I liked this tweak so much that within months, I got Port's device and upgraded my Glider to a Benz-Micro Ruby H (a great cartridge with this setup).
I will not be following this thread anymore since there were no more responses over the weekend. If anyone else posts and wants a response, please e-mail me that you are posting. Thank you. |
