Wanna take it to the next level? Buy MORE speakers!

@deep_333 --

Interesting topic. Never heard a well set-up multi channel system to convince me of its sonic/musical merits (which is also saying, implicitly, that I’ve heard a range of bland ones), not to say there aren’t good ones out there.

As it is though to me the quality of reproduction doesn’t fall back on an added number of channels to aid the immersive experience (which can indeed sound distracting to my ears with music), but rather the core nature and quality of the two main channels + subs. Not because I’m an analogue "purist" - I use a digital source only in addition to a DSP-based fully active setup - but simply because the sound coming from 2 channels, and what has been invested into and "perfected" around them, is the more natural and "right" sounding to me.

A typical scenario implies that I would listen to a multi-channel system quite different from my own with regard to the specific components used (not least the speakers), with the more interesting and relevant experiment being the one that was made around a component-similar expansion of my existing setup and seeing how that would turn out. With a given budget though I’d still max out the potential of what I have (or would upgrade to) from a 2-channel approach rather throwing the same coins at a channel expansion, not to mention if it involves reshuffling the cards entirely with the choice of main speakers and subs into a more size friendly package (it’s a slippery slope, mon frère).

I have experimented with a stash of crossover components from GR research. 400 to 600 dollars at most (or say under a 1000 dollars) in crossover component upgrades gets the fidelity close to max (ime) and diminishing returns hit like a wall thereafter, as you go up in price. But, a crappy driver from a manufacturer is a crappy driver and there’s no fixing that...

Manufacturers have cheaped out on crossover components so badly that the illusion of crossover component quality being the main culprit exists.

Agreed on the importance of the quality of the drivers, keeping in mind first and foremost their proper design implementation and what this means in singling out a range of fitting items that aren’t necessarily the more expensive or "exotic" ones.

Coming down to it though you only get so far with the quality of the drivers and crossover parts when the latter is placed between the amp and drivers. Even the best passive crossover components can’t escape the fact that they’re impeding with the amp to driver interface, potentially much more so the more complex they are, and it also means only taking partial advantage of your amp’s performance envelope instead of having it looking into a purer load actively.

What some may feel is gained from a "purist," analogue approach with quality component passive crossovers to others is missing the bigger picture in not taking into account its negative effect with regard to amp to driver interfacing. The quality of a DSP acting as a digital crossover actively is not irrelevant, but from my chair its overall sonic impact is of a significantly more "benign" nature as a line level, prior-to-amplification measure compared to a passive configuration on the output side of the amp, which affects both amp and driver performance more severely.

@deep_333 wrote:

I tried the active route with a GR speaker kit and minidsp’s stuff. It is easier with a diy kit, you simply set the passive crosssover aside and interface with the minidsp kit. I didn’t get the best sound there and i almost felt like the minidsp unit was borderline faulty.

Storm Audio (not cheap) lets one go active with any number of speakers on their multichannel processors. When i did have that processor, i wasn’t thinking about the active route too much, i.e., was already invested in passive configurations and ended up selling it.

The same could be leveled against your example of and experience with active configuration here as you did earlier with regard to the "quantity over quality" guys and them not even being audiophiles into their multi-channel music endeavors. Some seem to believe throwing in a MiniDSP over a speaker kit settles the matter on active vs. passive, but that’s a crude outset that only tells you so much and which also depends on one’s abilities to patiently dial in the filter settings.

Instead imagine using your existing, passively configured high quality main speakers that you know well and convert them into outboard active config. by swapping out their passive crossovers with an outboard quality DSP unit and buy extra power amps for each driver section (meaning: each amp channel is then connected directly to its corresponding driver or drivers in parallel for better amp-to-driver interfacing and load independent amp sections) - preferably similar to the one you’re using already so to make your ground of comparison with the passive scenario to really only be about what it means to have the filtration done prior to amplification on signal level actively vs. the one that happens on the output side of the amp passively via the speakers’ built-in crossovers.

Then follows weeks to months of carefully experimenting with filter values aided by measurements (in addition to other audio friends’ ears) and many hours of listening to determine which filter preset will grant the best results. No unknown speaker kit hauled in as guinea pigs (not that they can’t be fine speakers in their own right), no cheap plate amps or base level DSP unit with a so-so implementation of filter settings; only what have and know well already (with added amp channels and a quality DSP), converted into active configuration as carefully and thoroughly as possible to maximize its potential as you would a setup based around passive speakers (in which case the filter values are already set and fixed).

When you’ve been through all that in the context described, then let me know how you feel about outboard configuration and how it compared to its previous, passive iteration. And I know; conversely I’d have to do what’s essentially the same the get a truer bearing on the potential of multi-channel music reproduction as promoted by you.