Wadia 861SE with GNSC Statement Upgrade

Hi Bar81,

I do not understand why you believe I am on a slippery slope or why I should or should not be a poster child. A very confusing post from you there.

I was under the impression we were discussing a digital source. I am not sure what your point is.

Hi Bombaywalla,
I had a Wadia 861se with GNSC statement upgrade. I can assure you it has nothing to compare with DCS or Esoteric top end models. The wadia was lacking in definition. It had a big sound but with little resolution or depth in soundstage. Dynamics were either on or off. It may be more musical than the old DCS P8i but only great if you only listen to rock music.

While the Wadia is a beautifully built machine and GNSC did a wonderfully neat job inside, there are better players out there.

New digital is nearly always better than old digital.

Hi Bombaywalla and Bar 81,

Maybe I was unlucky with the Wadia. I always thought in the past Wadia made very desirable CD players. This was the main reason why I tried one out.

I tried everything to make it work (cabling/power filtering/isolation). To be honest I really wanted to like it. It just didnt work out for me. An Audio Aero capitole SE was much more detailed and that had a tube output stage.

To my ears the 861se GNSC statement sounded like old digital. Slight edge of grain with not quite resolved details. The dynamics were 3 stage. It didnt have a natural flow or progression through the dynamic envelope. pp then mf then f. It seemed to reach each a threshold step by step rather than letting the event happen with ease with no jumps. Look dont get me wrong, we are talking fine details here, but nevertheless at this level very important.

I was dying to find a 1 box player that was world class. I had had enough of massive hifi taking over the room. I wanted it to fit in my fireplace. I still ended up with a 3 box player again in the end.

I dont wish to upset anyone out there and of course my opinion is just my opinion. What is good to me may not be good for you. I am not slamming Wadia.

I will qualify my comments with the fact that I had a lot if top end players through the door around that time. Comparisons were done over a few months, and side by side on the whole. The wadia reminded me quite a lot of the ML players from the late 90s early 00s (great at the time).

I do stand by my experience that new digital on the whole is better than old. Digital playback has become much more refined. Dont fool yourselves. Look at the computer market.

Many of the components and board layouts are much better now. I owned state of the art players that were once known as the best you could find and within a few years modest players had the same performance.

The main thing is that you enjoy your music.

Maybe I should qualify the above with the fact that the players with volume control were used so and fed direct into power amps.

Aolmrd1241,

Sometimes. The difficulty is finding a good one! I spent many years looking and gave up. There was always a gain and a loss in the pre amps I tried. Never a gain gain if you catch my drift. The ARC ref 3 being the only compromise that I could almost live with. The Lamm was good but no remote...

But the traits of the player are the traits of the player. A pre amp wont add detail although it may enhance what is there.

Maybe I just expect uber detail from hi end players.

HI Bar81,

maybe there was a problem with the player I had, but I doubt it. Players from that time tend to sound the way I described. I had the internal dip switches set to the right output level, so the volume control was using the last few bits.

I know GNSC do good work. I have heard some mods to ARC he has done, as well as the Wadia in question. I just feel its a lot of money for not a great deal of performance with this player. It is bound to be better than the original, but if you spent the same money on an Audio Aero Capitole SE or even the Bel canto CD/DAC I am sure it would surprise you.

Have you heard the latest generation of high end DACs? Because if you feel that my description is out of line with your experience, this could be where the trouble is. For instance the DCS is absolute resolution, crystal clear top to bottom, not a hint of grain and extremely capable. There is clarity with new machines that you just dont get on these older models for whatever reason.

At least have an idea of where this Wadia sits in the world of digital playback today.

Now obviously things like the DCS are expensive machines, but the cheaper ones still have that ability as well as the players I mentioned. This is something the 861se showed no sign of.

I havent heard the Ayre preamp in my own system, but I have heard it in a Ayre system. I quite like Ayre.

Hi guys,
I understand we all have differing tastes. What is important to one person may not be important to others.

I dont know the Burmester 001 (I know what it looks like!). But the other players I have heard the Esoteric X01 although I think it was an se or something, also the X03se, the meridian with the volume control, which are quite good players.

I see Bar81 has gone down a very nice road with his hifi with Acoustic revive and MIT Ayre etc and Bombaywalla is a fellow Apogee man.

Resolution is extremely important. Thats where the magic is. Surely the whole point is to hear what is on the disk? Now whether the presentation is to your taste,well thats another question and is probably what you see in the modded Wadia. But things like layering are so delicate and easily lost. The Wadia I had didnt have a hope of that kind of resolution.

Your Apogee would show a player with fine details easily and leave you grinning from ear to ear. It is exactly what the Apogee is great at. Dont get me wrong Wadia is a lovely machine, just a little tired IMHO as a highend digital source. Its nearly 10 years old. So the majority of the insides were designed in the 90s.

I know GNSC put in Bybees etc and have done it beautifully (I had a good look inside) but the base unit is still the base unit. A computer from the late 90s early 00s with burr browns.

I totally understand, and dont wish come across as rude. It is always good to share experiences with fellow audiophiles. It is good to hear opinions.

Unfortunately writing in these forums it can be difficult to get to the heart of the matter without seeming to have an attitude. I have no axe to grind you understand I am just interested.

Hi Rtn1,

Amen to that. How do you find the 9 series?

Aolmrd1241,

I wouldnt compare a ribbon suspended in a magnetic field to a board full of chips, power supplies, lasers, clocks, decoding software and so on.

Lets not get confused now. Yes the Apogee is an old design. Advancements in glues etc have made it possible to refine a classic design. Just have a look on the 'gon to see how many are still represented among the finest systems.

My understanding is that some components of this Wadia have been replaced. Not a redesign just some components replaced with good knowledge, and the addition of filters (bybee) in various areas to make the best of what is there.

If the player is younger than I thought...yikes!

The post asked for people with experience of this player. My experience with it over several months was ok, not the last word. Obviously you feel different. There are better players IMHO, but there always will be better whatever you have. Digital gear is moving on very quickly now. That should be celebrated.