VPI HW19 MkIII vs. Michell Gyrodec?


Hi all, I've lurked around the forums here but never posted before. Now I have a question!

I'm looking to take my first real foray into the high-end by upgrading basically my whole system. I'm replacing an AR ES-1/Linn Basik/Aurum Beta and I've got it narrowed down to two 'tables. I'd love to hear what you think about each one, and which you'd buy if it was you:

VPI WH-19 MkIII with an AudioQuest PT-9+ and my Aurum Beta (I'll upgrade the cart later!)

or a Michell Gyrodec SE with the venerable RB300 and my Aurum Beta.

I've been able to audition the VPI locally and I definitely preferred to the Nottingham Interspace, plus I live in a loose bulding with plenty of vibration and NO possiblility of a wall shelf, so I need a competent suspension! However, I hear such GOOD things about the Gyro SE. Unfortunately, there isn't a Gyro even remotely close to me so I hear one.

What to do!?

My amp is a Conrad Johnson MV55, interconnect is Audioquest Viper and AQ Type6 speaker cables to Clements 107di's. I haven't yet bought a preamp but am looking at either the JJ 243 which has a nice tube phono stage, or a CJ PV10B with phono stage.

Thanks for any help!
dirtyragamuffin

Showing 3 responses by bombaywalla

Dirtyragamuffin,

I don't know how much I can help you but here are some things to think about (if you haven't already received the Michell unit):-

>>plus I live in a loose bulding with plenty of vibration and NO possiblility of a wall shelf, so I need a competent suspension!

In this case, the Michell is a BAD choice & I feel that you will regret it! To get the best out of ANY suspended TT you need a rock-solid place to put it such as a wall shelf or a concrete stand such as that made by VPI or by Billy Bags. These things are freaking heavy but the idea is to arrest all vibrations from getting to the TT. If you let vibrations get to the TT, your suspended TT will sound merely mediocre & you will never realize its full potential. It'll be marginally better than your present setup. If I may, I'd recommend you go for a non-suspended TT such as the VPI Scout or Scout Master or a Nottingham Interspace. In your setting, the Nottingham should be the outright winner. Get the Nottingham w/ its corresponding tonearm - there is a lot of synergy between the TT & its arm as my good friend, who owns a Spacedeck, found out. He couldn't believe how much things got better when he swapped out his Origin Live Silver 250 for the Space tonearm!

* The RB250 is a more stable design than the RB300 as the 250 has bearings on *both* sides of the tonearm while the 300 has bearings only on *one* side. This is also why Origin Live chose to upgrade the RB250 & create a Silver 250 over the RB300.
A inherently more stable tonearm translates to its use with a much, much larger range of cartridges & cartridges that have a low(er) compliance such as the Denon DL103, Shelter & Koetsu types.

* You Aurum Beta cart. should work just fine as-is & I would spend top $ on getting the best TT. In order of priority that yields most spend the max. on
1. TT
2. tonearm
3. cart

'cuz if you put a stellar tonearm on a mediocre TT, you'll limit the tonearm & will obtain on mediocre sound. Same logic applies to mounting a stellar cart. on a mediocre tonearm. It is much better to mount a mediocre tonearm on a stellar TT as you know that the tonearm is giving you its best. Any subsequent upgrades in the tonearm will yield much better sound as the TT will not limit the sound. This, of course, is valid until you reach the limits of the TT. That is why buy the best TT possible w/ your $. You can keep it for a long time while you upgrade the tonearm.

* From a very reliable source (who I will insist on keeping confidential) I understand that the Michell suspensions are not as SOTA as its rivals. This person sells VPI, Michell, MMF & Nottingham for a long, long time. Many, many people, who have used his services, have nothing but compliments to pay to him. He has rarely misguided people & I have personal experience w/ him as do some of my friends. All, I'm saying is that I trust his advice completely. When I was looking for a TT, he recommended a Nott. Spacedeck w/ Space arm. I didn't go with his suggestion 'cuz of looks *only* . However, sound-wise, this TT-tonearm kills almost all its rivals & is *far* ahead of VPI & I have heard a VPI Aries-JMW10 & JMW12 TT.

FWIW. IMHO. YMMV.
Dirtyragamuffin, Nameci:

Guys, I'm NOT saying that a non-suspended TT does not need a wall shelf/solid platform. It certainly benefits - no doubt.

OK, what I was trying to say was a correctly designed non-suspended TT is much easier to work with in terms of getting the best perf. from it compared to a suspended TT. If one is not familiar with how to tune/tweak the suspension correcly, then one ends up obtaining mediocre perf. So, if your home environment is "loose" to begin with + you are a novice @ tweaking suspended TTs, I feel, that you will end up coupling the noise/vibrations from the environment into the TT. Also, the suspension of the TT needs to be checked every 6 months or so to ensure that it's settings have not changed. Not saying that you have to touch is every 6 months but am saying that you got to look @ it to see if you need to touch it. So, it's not entirely set-and-forget. Maybe this is not a criteria for Dirtyragamuffin?

Non-suspended TTs are more novice-friendly & using some pretty straight-forward isolation techniques (granite slab, Bright Star sandboxes, Neuance shelf, etc many of which are inexpensive DIY solutions) one can obtain very good sound from them. Yes, if the floor is loose & you walk across the room - thump, thump, thump - the stylus WILL skip!

Now, if Dirtyragamuffin has a local vinyl guru, who is well-versed in the art of vinyl, and can help him then disregard all this!
Hope that this clarifies my earlier post. Sorry for the misunderstanding it created.
Nameci,

I won't argue with you 'cuz you've experienced what you have! Also, my objective was to educate Dirtyragamuffin rather argue with the members here.

Anyway, it seems that you are a better pro @ suspended TTs than I am. Terry (Tlh28) & myself seem to have very similar experiences per his latest post.

Several facts have revealed themselves & Dirtyragamuffin can make his choice.